Tying two threads together

[scrambler]

Tying two threads together: The Next Big Terrorist Event AND Planning Your Next Vacation?

 

So yeah, over the last few days reading the spray threads, I started thinking about the juxtaposition of laws and technology, in particular Islamic law and nuclear technology. Recall a thread started by Minx titled Human Rights. It revolved around the story of a Nigerian woman sentenced to death by stoning for having sex outside of marriage ( Amina Lawal and Sharia (Islamic law). Without getting into aspects of crime and punishment, I now introduce another recent story. On Sept. 26, 2003, Nigeria launched an earth observation satellite ( Nigeria's space program ). To quote from the article:

“The Nigerian team has acquired the necessary know-how, skills and experience to design and build future micro satellites in Nigeria for the country's socio-economic development, national security and enhancement of the country's leadership role in Africa.”

Quite the juxtaposition of repressive law and high technology!! Think also of communications technology that forms the basis for Al Jazeera.

 

Ok, now to the meat and potatoes. Iran has fissionable material and has plans to continue with its so-called peaceful nuclear program ( Iran firm on nuke plans ). And, more stuff here: Pakistan's bomb .

 

I stopped short of calling it the “Islamic bomb” because this isn’t an indictment of that religion anymore than I would speak of a Christian or Jewish bomb. However, the question should be, “Would Islamic fundamentalists use the bomb to turn the clock back? Would they see it as their duty to use the bomb even if it meant taking society back to the Stone Age?” Sounds crazy to us ordinary folks, but fundamentalists are not normal.

 

In all fairness, the Israelis have the capability to field nuclear weapons (WMD) thus aggravating the situation. And, they are strictly a theocracy.

 

An enlightened worldview based on science and its findings seems incongruent with regressive (as opposed to progressive) religion. However, high technology (applied science) and fundamentalist Islamic ideas are not incompatible. The wealth concentrated in the hands of the rulers of countries such as Saudi Arabia is the cause of this situation. They are the danger.

 

Does the ends justify the means? And, what the hell is the right thing for us as a country to do?

 

 

[rbw1966]

I read with interests your thoughts scrambler. One premise underlying your ideas that I see is some sort of islamic-based threat of world domination. I've never got the sense that the muslim community wants to take over the US but rather want us to stop interfering in their (i.e. islamic) affairs. Its late and my thoughts are elsewhere for the moment, but has an islamic nation ever engaged in colonialism in the same way as the US? Territorial squabbles sure--but these are immediate and adjacent. The Turks went on a territorial binge but they never forced other nations to adapt to their views or beliefs but rather let them rule themselves somewhat autonomously.

 

I think the US is guilty of a cultural hubris in assuming that we have the answers to islamic concerns, or are morally justified in interfering. Its my understanding that a lot of hatred towards Americans began with US bases appearing in muslim countries and the flouting of muslim norms that came with that.

 

 

 

[scrambler]

rbw1966 said:

I read with interests your thoughts scrambler. One premise underlying your ideas that I see is some sort of islamic-based threat of world domination. I've never got the sense that the muslim community wants to take over the US but rather want us to stop interfering in their (i.e. islamic) affairs. Its late and my thoughts are elsewhere for the moment, but has an islamic nation ever engaged in colonialism in the same way as the US? Territorial squabbles sure--but these are immediate and adjacent. The Turks went on a territorial binge but they never forced other nations to adapt to their views or beliefs but rather let them rule themselves somewhat autonomously.

 

I think the US is guilty of a cultural hubris in assuming that we have the answers to islamic concerns, or are morally justified in interfering. Its my understanding that a lot of hatred towards Americans began with US bases appearing in muslim countries and the flouting of muslim norms that came with that.

 

 

 

I don't want to turn this thread into an indictment of what we (US) have done or were believed to have done in the past. If I had wanted to I would have brought up the Shah of Iran. Realise that I'm pointing the finger at the rulers instead of the religion in general. They're using religion as social control. To stay on topic I ask this question.

 

Are the current rulers in Middle Eastern countries promoting long-term stability or eventual chaos? They're playing a dangerous game with their own people by simultaneously inciting them against us while at the same time pretending to be our ally against instability in the region.

Edited September 29, 2003 by scrambler

[Peter_Puget]

rbw1966 said:

I read with interests your thoughts scrambler. One premise underlying your ideas that I see is some sort of islamic-based threat of world domination. I've never got the sense that the muslim community wants to take over the US but rather want us to stop interfering in their (i.e. islamic) affairs. Its late and my thoughts are elsewhere for the moment, but has an islamic nation ever engaged in colonialism in the same way as the US? Territorial squabbles sure--but these are immediate and adjacent. The Turks went on a territorial binge but they never forced other nations to adapt to their views or beliefs but rather let them rule themselves somewhat autonomously.

 

I think the US is guilty of a cultural hubris in assuming that we have the answers to islamic concerns, or are morally justified in interfering. Its my understanding that a lot of hatred towards Americans began with US bases appearing in muslim countries and the flouting of muslim norms that came with that.

 

 

Your post reveals either a desire to spray or complete ignorance on the history of “Islam” and current political thought as publicly expressed by Iranian leaders. For example, Hashemi Rafsanjani, the powerful chairman of Iran's Guidance Council, has talked of "the elimination of the Israel problem with the use of one nuclear bomb."

 

PP

 

[rbw1966]

Peter: Out of respect for scrambler I won't stray any further off his desired topic except to say that I wasnt talking about Israel at all.

[Dru]

Peter_Puget said:

rbw1966 said:

I read with interests your thoughts scrambler. One premise underlying your ideas that I see is some sort of islamic-based threat of world domination. I've never got the sense that the muslim community wants to take over the US but rather want us to stop interfering in their (i.e. islamic) affairs. Its late and my thoughts are elsewhere for the moment, but has an islamic nation ever engaged in colonialism in the same way as the US? Territorial squabbles sure--but these are immediate and adjacent. The Turks went on a territorial binge but they never forced other nations to adapt to their views or beliefs but rather let them rule themselves somewhat autonomously.

 

I think the US is guilty of a cultural hubris in assuming that we have the answers to islamic concerns, or are morally justified in interfering. Its my understanding that a lot of hatred towards Americans began with US bases appearing in muslim countries and the flouting of muslim norms that came with that.

 

 

Your post reveals either a desire to spray or complete ignorance on the history of “Islam” and current political thought as publicly expressed by Iranian leaders. For example, Hashemi Rafsanjani, the powerful chairman of Iran's Guidance Council, has talked of "the elimination of the Israel problem with the use of one nuclear bomb."

 

PP

 

Sounds very similar to Ronald Reagan "My friends, I have passed legislation outlawing Russia forever. We begin bombing in 5 minutes. Wait a sec, is this mike on?"

[scrambler]

Three British men (James Lee, Peter Brandon, and Glenn Ballard) were arrested by the Saudi police and tortured into confessing to crimes they didn't commit. They were released last month with pressure from the British government after the men had received the full Lubyanka torture treatment. This is a load of crap from a country that pretends to be a legitimate member of the community of nations. Why aren't we investigating these bastards? Especially after 911?

 

Story here:Yeah, this is a right-wing journal--so, what?

[Dru]

Hey Scrambler

 

so what else is new? Canadian tortured not worthy of comment?

[scrambler]

Dru said:

Hey Scrambler

 

so what else is new? Canadian tortured not worthy of comment?

 

Equally appalling, Dru. I'd like to know why the US government and perhaps other Western countries are kowtowing to the Saudi state.

 

I wasn't old enough to remember much of the 1973 oil embargo but I heard that things were so bad during that time that people for threatening each other with guns in the lines outside of gas stations.

 

In 1979 the Iranian militants took 273(?) Americans hostage (don't know if any Canadians were seized) and held them for what, 9 months? Are we going to let them (hardliners) take us hostage again?