mountainsandsound
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Posts posted by mountainsandsound
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Crags are cool, but they don't have the same appeal to me as mountains. That is why I remain a marginal rock climber who may not ever get past 9s and easy 10s. That's also why I think it would be easier for me to dedicate more time to skiing than rock climbing.
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You guys are convincing. I thought this was the year I would actually invest in a transceiver, but I think I will keep begging/borrowing/renting in favor of using those funds to learn how to ski, which may include (gasp) spending cash for a few lift tickets.
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As far as gear, rent downhill stuff a few times. I've found that old cheap approach skis cobbled to climbing boots are only really skiable if you already know how to ski. It's a crappy set up for a beginner. My skiing (and fun) improved exponentially when i quit trying to do it in climbing boots and got some used AT gear (a few years old, not decades). Actually the newer pack of boots out there climb amazingly well too, IMHO, the "approach ski" is on it's way out being supplanted by boots that both ski and climb fairly well for the average weekend warrior.
Thanks for that bit, I was at one point set on doing the silvretta/approach ski setup with mountaineering boots to minimize the amount of additional gear I'd have to get. I've been questioning that more and more though... especially if it's true that the newer AT boots do OK climbing and given that I won't need boots that climb extreme terrain anyway. I just have my eyes set on mellow standard routes and covering ground on FS roads.
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Are all you CCers skiers as well as climbers, or do other slowshoers have my problem of their friends disowning them in the winter?
To solve this problem, I'm thinking of picking up some Silvrettas and approach skis for my Invernos. Would it be reasonable for a person to pick up skiing without practicing at the resort? And I don't mean steep descents and nice turns, but just to the point of being more efficient than snowshoes and relatively safe? I have a background in cross-country skiing, but not downhill.
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But I think you've hit on the exact issue- I expect rangers to be a lot more easy going (and less hard-assed cop) than you do. This isn't Compton. Heavy handed anchor removal only adds to the Gestapo image.
I think you're right. Maybe I do set the bar too low for cops. Thinking about a few particular incidences with police during my late teens and early 20s that left me a bit jaded, when I am treated with anything less than hostility I tend to view it as positive. And I don't feel the same way about anchor removal as I do regarding enforcement of overnight permits. Those anchors are not destroying the environment (compared to tat, trails, bridges, pit toilets, etc...) and not (arguably I suppose) diminishing the experience of others, so I don't see why it is imperative that they be chopped.
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Agreed. If you can't stay patient during a workday of dealing with some potentially difficult people, I would say you don't have what it takes to be a ranger or law enforcement in general. I'm not saying that park users aren't having negative interactions with rangers, or that there aren't rangers with bad attitudes out there; each person's experience is their own. From my own experience as a frequent user, I haven't had any problems. But perhaps that is due to my perspective of what is and isn't a reasonable enforcement of the law, given that rangers do have latitude when it comes to what they choose to enforce. I don't see the enforcement of overnight permits as unreasonable. Letting that rule slide can have negative consequences for other users.
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I'm thinking specifically about the ranger who forced two of the posters here to march back to Marblemount to get properly permitted rather than issuing them an available permit on the spot.
I don't see the problem. I've come up on the short end of the stick in this situation when I was permitted to camp in a backcountry camp in NCNP and found that all established sites were full, meaning that the issuing ranger was bad at math or someone had dodged the permit system. You mention that there were available permits, but how would issuing a permit on the spot discourage that behavior in the future? What if the next time those climbers took off without one the parties with the proper permits got shafted once they got to camp?
I guess I don't see the systemic problem that some folks see with the rangers in NCNP. I backpack/climb/hike there often and have never had a problem with them. Some of them have come across as overbearing nerds, but I've never felt like I was treated unfairly or my experience was diminished because of an interaction with a ranger. I don't agree totally on how things are run there but I haven't had a reason to blame the rangers in particular.
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I actually went by the birthplace of John Wayne in Winterset, Iowa last week. It is really the only thing the town has going for it. His childhood home did not suggest gayness, but the town itself was kinda ghey.
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Proof that John Wayne is Ghey!
Not quite proof. A purple telly tubby sure, but a purple rabbit? Still open to interpretation.
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I'd like some reimbursement for the shutdown days on my 2013 climbing pass. $44/365= just over 12 cents per day.
Maybe I wasn't planning on climbing soon anyway. But maybe bad weather, avy conditions, and unconsolidated snow over a late-season glacier are just what I wanted.
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These pictures really set a mood. The dusting of snow, the foreboding clouds and threat of precip, low visibility, hunkered down by the fire. I can feel that fall in the alpine feeling at my desk. Thanks for the TR.
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Thanks for the responses. I figured I could just tie into the middle for a steeper pitch if need be. Did not know that fact about stiffness and pulling post rappel. Makes sense, good to know.
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A bit off topic I suppose, but does anyone know if restricting car to car climbs in the enchantments is being or has ever been considered?
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The state's money would be better spent targeting climbing gyms for re-education than a few bouldering areas, I would think. Get these indescriminately pooing hipsters in their spawning grounds. It's likely gym owners would get on board with the poo-ducation program if they were aware of the problem and asked.
That is a good idea. Most climbers jump on the leave-no-trace bandwagon sooner or later when properly educated and tend to self-police pretty well.
But, if there are places (and I'm not saying that Leavenworth qualifies) that continue to have a problem, and ranger presence is the only way to get certain idiots to not drop a deuce willy-nilly in a sensitive or heavily used area, then I'm OK with rangers on poo patrol. The freedom to not run into a cop in the woods is weighed against the freedom to not dodge human excrement. That decision should be made carefully.
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I am curious- how small in diameter can you go until you notice that catching a fall is more difficult? I have a 8.5 mm that I use on glacier routes and have used on easy alpine rock sections where I expected that forces would be pretty low because the terrain was not vertical. Have not tried to catch a lead fall with it though.
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I've recommended this traverse to friends looking for a technically mellow but still adventurous outing, and everyone who does it is suitably impressed.
Well said. This route is great not due to the challenges but because the position in the range makes these views unreal. Ditto with Black Peak. Sitting on the summit of Ruth on a hot August day and watching ice fall on the Price Glacier was memorable to say the least.
Then I promptly snapped out of my trance when I sweated through unrelenting heat while being tortured by black flies on the way down from Hannegan Pass.
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I love this scramble. Did you meet any troublesome goats on route?
No goats at all - just some traces of their poo.
Tons of people hiking the trail to the lakes though
I climbed tommyhoi last month and there was a goat standing guard with her kid at the notch when I was making my descent. I could not convince her to move with shouts, handwaving, or small rocks in their direction. So I waited them out for 10 minutes or so till they got bored and took off. Maybe she just wanted some good sodium, but I don't trust goats, especially not during a solo venture.
I was there during midweek and there were many people overnighting and day hiking at the lakes.
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I love this scramble. Did you meet any troublesome goats on route?
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Cats can do better tricks than dogs, they just can't do them on command.
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15 years as mayor? jesus, have these people never heard of term-limits?
Converted to cat years, that must have even Strom Thurmon beat.
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Over the years, I've introduced people to mountaineering coming largely from two different backgrounds: backpacking and rock climbing. Each of them could gain valuable skills by focusing on the area they lack either cragging experience or scrambling in the mountains. Also, both groups tend to be light on snow travel experience.
The people I have introduced have been experienced backpackers and hikers rather than rock climbers. I have seen rock climbers pick up mountaineering though, and it seems to be a tougher learning curve for those folks. If you've been backpacking or hiking as an enthusiastic kid or teenager, chances are you were going off trail and scrambling up to high points as well without thinking much about it, so the familiarity with mountain terrain is there when you set out for more technical adventures.
I do agree about snow travel though. That seems to be the missing piece for everyone.
As far as group size, I have done an experienced to beginner ratio of 2:1 for a rope team of 3, and a 1:1 for a rope team of 4 on beginner glacier climbs.
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I think I try to choose objectives that minimize "gray area" (i.e. picking routes with straightforward approaches and well defined technical sections). Of course, out of all the routes out there, most do not follow this scheme, but many beginner routes seem to.
Sounds like a great strategy. I think beginning glacier routes usually follow this pattern: Mount Hood and Mount Baker come to mind. But beginning alpine rock routes in the Cascades often do not: the Tooth and the Beckey route on Liberty Bell for example.
You got me there. I have only introduced my friends to glacier routes, not technical, 5th class alpine rock routes. I've only done a few of those myself. But if I were to teach it someday, I would make sure my friends had the basic skills (rock climbing, steep snow and glacier) learned in a more forgiving environment (the crag, ski area, mellow glacier climb) before moving up to more technical alpine routes.
I think exposing newbies to a big mountain environment and getting them comfortable with exposure can (and maybe should?) be done at first with routes of a less technical nature. Then start throwing more of the technical skills in. I would be inclined to say that being comfortable in a mountain environment is more important for beginners than raw technical skills, as evidenced by gym climbers sometimes getting in over their heads when they go outside.
Hypothetically, by the time my neophyte climber friend is ready to go up some alpine route with me, that "gray area" 3rd/4th class scramble section should be a non-issue because they will already be comfortable soloing on that type of terrain because they've scrambled 3rd and 4th class peaks. That easy but exposed 30 degree snowslope will be OK because they are good at self arrest and comfortable on snow after our beginner glacier climbs.
I realize I'm probably fairly conservative. I think in the end, beginners will feel more comfortable, have more fun, and feel more accomplished and satisfied with their climbing if they learn by taking smaller steps along the way and knocking off intermediate objectives. I learned to snowboard at Mt. Baker when at age 14, my friends dropped me off at the top of chair 8 and told me they would catch up with me at the lower lodge. It worked eventually, but it probably wasn't as fun as it could have been and I ended up picking up bad habits at first. Also, I couldn't move the next day.
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I think we did the right rappel and did the same class 3 section. Although you say it was a ramp? I remember the class 3 below as more of a gullyish setup. The class 4 section for us was definitely not blocky, but instead was a C4 traverse (the rock explodes like C4 too).
We experienced nothing like what you described below. We had a 40' rap to mellow terrain.
"We got the rope ready and put it though the rappel ring, my biggest worry came true. It didn't reach. Looking down I dreaded the idea of having to get off the rope and down climb the last section. I knew that if there was anyone to go down first, it would have to be me. Looking around I said aloud "there's gotta be another way". We both knew there wasn't. This was the only way down. The rappel position was the worst I've ever seen. The people who put up the webbing couldn't have done much to fix this. With the slightest tug the webbing moved which worried me. We secured it on as best as we could. I said a prayer and got on with the rappel.
To start out I had to go over to the right where there was a minor ledge. With one hand I held on to the brake and the other I held the rock. I had to traverse more towards the webbing to get it in motion. But as I got closer it became increasingly more over hang like. My arms were exhausted from the climbing and were starting to give way. I could not figure out a safe position to get to."
Perhaps the thought of how daring and exciting something will sound on a trip report taints the memory when it comes time to actually write it.
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I have introduced several friends to mountaineering. Now that you mention it, I think I try to choose objectives that minimize "gray area" (i.e. picking routes with straightforward approaches and well defined technical sections). Of course, out of all the routes out there, most do not follow this scheme, but many beginner routes seem to.
I don't ski and it's bringing me down
in Climber's Board
Posted
Yup. And I thought mountaineering was expensive when I first started to splurge on the gear... then came rock climbing... all of this on top of backpacking, fishing, kayaking, surfing, etc... then my wife started to ask me about how many hobbies I planned on pursuing.
All part of a very Pacific Northwest, first-world problem I guess.