sheaf_stout

what? get tired of talking about kidney stones and male pattern baldness already? I don't know anything about kidney stones or baldness. Is that what you prefer to talk about now? I'm sorry but I don't feel like partaking in that sort of discussion. Truly a stange lot some of you are.

it looks like Rednose set all your jon kerry heads bobbin in the same direction.

nRF1uOWcfCM

Agreed that we need to take our foreign policy in a sensible direction, but I view Nancy Pelosi and Hillary with the same distrust as George Bush and Cheney. Amen. Those two are total nutcases of the other extreme. Many of the leading candidates for presidency from the last election on the Democrat side voted in favor of this war. To suddenly act like it never happened is really just a big lie. Thus the remarks from MattP earlier are dead in my eyes. Trashman, I think you've read too far into my comments. Doesn't matter as you and I know it was just a shot over the bow. I don't really care for the arab world and am not interested in pursuing any relations whatsoever in that part of the world.

Oh snap! dtpinhead, Let me guess... you spent 2 years in the military for some GI bill\college money. I've seen those people come in all the time. Usually squeaky mouthed and often times unwilling to pull their weight. More interested in letting time pass in a hurry. Often times the ones who whined and complained about how they didn't want to go to the Middle East because they didn't sign up for that. You should know that there are a few more things to being a soldier than launching 5.56 and 7.62 down range at the enemy. Being a part of a cohesive unit and dealing with the daily difficulties of life in the military are some of the hardest parts for people to grasp. The 1st Sergeant of my unit used to send a lot of the problematic troops into my squad for a fixing. I think most of those troops just didn't really grasp what their mission was at times and got lost thinking about themselves too much instead of their unit. In general the military is a representation of our society as a whole. So if you had a hard time fitting in then maybe there are other issues at hand. I'd hardly say that a short stint in a unit or two for a few years as a small sampling of the military would give you the benefit to make generalizations which suggest our troops are mindless brutes which you were too good to serve with. Perhaps you chose the wrong MOS or got shipped into a shitty unit as well. Or maybe worse, that you harbor some social issues which you have not dealt with. I sense that you got sent on KP and guard duty too many times and maybe even got bullied by your peers for possibly not pulling your own weight. Don't bother blaming the military for things you had trouble dealing with. Either way it doesnt really matter because a soldiers mission is not really to win people's hearts and minds as you have suggested. Your banter is full of hot air. MattP, In general I see you are trying to vindicate or absolve your favorite party from responsibility.. I will come and read what you have to say when I have more time on my hands...

dtpinhead, You sound like you were the social reject in your platoon.

JosephH, cool. I am not really attacking your credibility. Mostly I just wanted more info. That's a shitty way to get it, I know. I am not a merc or whatever derogatory term you want to use in order to get under my skin. Never was. Nice compilation of targets you have there. I suppose I could also drum up as many on the left who voted for the war too. I think Rednose already covered that point earlier though. If not - then why the hell did some many of them vote in favor of the war? Did they think war was some friendly game? Rhetoric... The left is as guilty of anything if you ask me. To suggest treason is really a joke. Believe it or not. I am not here to convince you one way or the other. Canadian idiot - go home. I am with Rednose on that.. I will not disgrace all Canadians though. A Canadian was my squad leader when doing LRP training down in Georgia. One of the toughest and meanest son of a bitches I ever did meet. I never did get it out of him why he was in the US military...

and thin skinned too... I preferred to look my enemy in the eye just before I put him in the sights. It's more personal that way. I didn't have the luxury of hanging with the brass in the rear with the gear when duty called. I can respect your service but I don't admire it. Tell me. Did you take more photos of the admirals stepping off those choppers and onto safe ground to dine on caviar, or of SAM sights? At least we didn't get Kerry in there to run this war. He doesn't have any nutsacks to get anything done. God help us all if Hitlary gets elected. The media is too busy trying to crush this war with their propaganda than to actually get in there where it is dangerous and report something truthful and relevant. I really like their firsthand accound reporting. They should take a tip from someone like this fellow. You wanna talk about treason. Shit, half of CNN and NYT could be considered treasonous reporters. Why would I believe a word from those yellowbacks? Many Americans act and protest in outrage for sacrifices they are not even bearing. Others here talk about winning hearts and minds. They don't know what hearts and minds means, except what some professor conveyed to them in some university class. Some professor who probably dodged the draft anyway.. Real sacrifices are being made by those troops in that video patrolling MSRs day in and day out. Or the marines throwing grenades into rooms and guarding checkpoints for shitty pay. All this while some bitches at home are undermining the whole effort and complaining. Your newly elected liberal congress is busy trying mark themselves as heroes by stopping the war. Political stunts no doubt... People like you are are too busy reading about Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt to care about the war. It's pathetic to come here and read all of this whining. I hope we leave Iraq with a big bang. I think of it as a way to let that part of the world know we're ready if they come knocking later on. Oh yeah.. I love the whole idea of bankrupting those fuckheads in the middle east by moving to alternative fuels... When their oil and money dries up they can have enjoy their filthy, worthless sandpits.

america's finest . . . I don't understand why outstanding young men like that aren't winning the Iraqi peoples' hearts and minds. There is a message in there just for people like you.

REMF

Amen. isdhEDWXg4I

Wars cannot be won academically, by sitting in the rear looking at maps and sending orders. Just ask Adolf Hitler; he managed the Normandy defense in June/July of 1945 and failed miserably. Eschewing 'pure academics' is not a pursuit in anti-intellectualism, nor is it proof of a 'bigger bodycount' mentality. However, it is accepting of the fact that, sometimes, only a bigger hammer will do. It is an acceptance of the fact that nothing is purely academic and other factors, points of view, and experiences need to be included in the process. Combat commanders get their share of academics during training; then they take that to the field and see how it works, why it works, and how to improve. There are boots on the ground because of foreign policy, as I am sure we can agree. However, part of foreign policy is commitment to war, when war is decided upon. It is a part of proven foreign policy that diplomacy does not always work. Historical precedent shows us evidence of this; Chamberlain in Munich comes to mind.

Most key elements which formed the 9/11 murders were in place before Bush took oath. Clinton failed to bring the fight to the enemy and thus protect the national interests. I think the analogy of him sleeping on guard is fair. Clinton did in fact alienate large segments of the military leadership in the NCO Corps leading to a mass exodus from many of the best leaders during the 1990s. His military blunders are not casual miscalculations and it's clear that his terms as Commander in Chief were riddled with many problems with the military. In general many troops viewed him in disgust for various reasons which have already been mentioned. I recall speaking with many upper ranked officers whom planned to retire due to the political circus which ensued after he entered office, but I don't really want to speak for the Officers. I agree that Vietnam was a complicated war but that article does not vindicate or implicate anyone. Don't forget that the grand John F. Kennedy brought the United States into that war and then it was a hot potato passed to Johnson who made some nearly urecoverable and disasterous decisions. Nixon was a crook. A war is measured in military successes and not because of post war political failures. A physical space is siezed and controlled for a given time. To suggest that political failures or ensuing handoff after a war which result in a social or governmental implosion seems like clever scapegoat for someone more than anything else. Those are things beyond what a common soldier is bound to accomplish. In that article you can see that the media was a key instrument for engineering the social failure at home. You even mention yourself that war would have been too costly a price to pay for the measure of success which you have or had envisioned. What did the rest of America have in mind? Maybe not the same things you did... I agree with rednose whom suggested that you cannot calculate and win this war based upon pure academics which some here are attempting to do.