Seahawks

C. Evolution didn't happen in the past. When we look at the record of life in the past, we see no conclusive evidence that any basic category arose from some other category either. We see that some categories have gone extinct, like the dinosaurs, but the rest fit into the same categories that we see today. We see dogs in great variety, even some extinct varieties, but no half dog/half something else. Evolutionists have a few transitional forms that are commonly mentioned, but if evolution and descent from common ancestors really occurred we should see multiplied thousands of transitional forms. We do not see them. The most famous living evolutionary spokesman, Dr. Stephen J. Gould, paleontologist at Harvard University, has made a career out of pointing out to his colleagues that the fossil record shows abrupt appearance and stasis. He is no friend of creation and yet as an honest scientist he must acknowledge this now well-known fact. He proposed the concept of "punctuated equilibrium" to account for the fossils in which life usually is in equilibrium, or stasis, and doesn't change at all. When a category of life encounters a sudden environmental shift, it changes rapidly into a different stable form, so rapidly in fact that it leaves no fossils. How convenient. Evolution goes too slow to see in the present, but it went so fast in the past it left no evidence. Gould is arguing from lack of evidence! But lack of transitional forms is exactly what should be the case if creation is true. The fossil record supports abrupt creation of basic kinds much better than either slow or fast evolution.

B. Evolution (i.e., macroevolution) doesn't happen in the present. If it ever happened in the past it seems to have stopped. Maybe environmental conditions don't change much, or selective pressures are too little, but everyone knows that real macroevolution is not and cannot be observed today. Mutations, random changes in the DNA information code, are observed, but never do these "birth defects" add any innovative and beneficial genes to the DNA. Instead, mutations are either repaired by the marvelous mechanisms elsewhere in the DNA, or are neutral, harmful, or fatal to the organisms. Likewise, natural selection occurs all around us, but this only chooses from among the variety that already exists, it can't create anything new. Evolutionists may talk of actual selection as if it had a mind of its own and does the work of evolution on purpose, but it is inanimate and unthinking, impotent to bring about more than micro-evolutionary changes.

A. Random forces cannot account for life. The design we see in living things is far too complex, too designed, too engineered to be the result of mere undirected, random forces. Even the simplest thing we could call "living" is vastly more complex than a super computer and super computers don't happen by chance. Every cell is composed of many constituent parts, each one marvelously designed and necessary for the whole. Without any one of its parts, the cell could not live. All of it is organized and energized by the magnificent DNA code, an encyclopedia of information which, even though modern scientists can't read it, it is read and obeyed by the cell. Surely some things need a Designer/Author.

Let us now consider theories on the origin of life. Here also the so-called evolutionary origin of life chemist is forced to utilize processes contrary to natural laws. In their experiments designed to produce even very simple molecules, they run into insuperable difficulties. For example, they must postulate some form of energy that would be available to convert simple molecules into more complex molecules. The only forms of energy that would have been available on their hypothetical primitive Earth would have been energy from the Sun, electrical discharges (lightning), radioactive decay, and heat. Most of the available energy would be that from the Sun. All raw forms of energy are destructive. The raw, unshielded ultraviolet light coming from the Sun is deadly, destroying rapidly the biological molecules required for life, such as amino acids, proteins, DNA, and RNA. UV light rapidly kills bacteria by disrupting molecules. All forms of life from bacteria to man are killed by UV light, and you know that if you are hit by lightning you would not become more complex—you would be severely injured or killed. In all experiments employing these sources of raw energy, the rates of destruction vastly exceed the rates of formation. How then was Miller in his experiment1 able to obtain a small quantity of several amino acids and a few other products? He employed a trap. As tiny quantities of these substances were constantly being created and were immediately isolated in the trap, the gases he employed were circulating continuously through his raw energy, electrical discharges (simulating lightning). Without the trap, the products would have been destroyed by the electrical discharges at rates that vastly exceed the rates of formation, and no detectable quantities of the products would have formed. There could have been no traps available on the hypothetical primitive Earth. If these products were formed in the atmosphere they would be destroyed before they could reach the ocean. Furthermore, the ocean could not have acted as a trap since even there destructive processes would eliminate any surviving products. In any case, a trap is fatal to the theory. The purpose of the trap is to isolate the products from the energy source, but this brings the process to a complete halt. For amino acids to join together to make a protein, a large quantity of energy is required, but the very purpose of the trap is to isolate the products from the energy. No energy, no further progress. Even as long ago as 1960 the physical chemist, D. E. Hull, taking into account the rates of destruction versus the rates of formation in these origin of life schemes, concluded that, "The physical chemist, guided by the proved principles of chemical thermodynamics and kinetics, cannot offer any encouragement to the biochemist [origin of life chemist], who needs an ocean full of organic compounds to form even lifeless coacervates" (Nature 186:693). Coacervates are mere blobs of disorganized material. Please note that Hull states that these so-called origin of life schemes are contrary to proved principles of chemical thermodynamics and kinetics, which are essentially the same as natural laws

Why? you will not beleive it, may not even read it. According to evolutionary theory, starting with the chaos and disorder of the Big Bang and the simplicity of hydrogen and helium gases, the universe created itself. This is clearly a violation of natural law, namely the Second Law of Thermodynamics. According to this law an isolated system can never increase in order and complexity, transforming itself to higher and higher levels of organization. An isolated system will inevitably, with time, run down, becoming more and more disorderly. There are no exceptions. Contrary to this natural law, evolutionists believe the universe is an isolated system which transformed itself from the chaos and disorder of the Big Bang and simplicity of hydrogen and helium gases into the incredibly complex universe we have today. This is a direct violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. If natural laws are natural laws, the universe could not have created itself. The only alternative is that it is not an isolated system. There must be a Creator that is external to and independent of the natural universe who was responsible for its origin and who created the natural laws that govern its operation.

And what of Satan? Another of God's creations that went haywire? Made before he even made humans? Seagal have any kids??? I bet you want them to be the best they can be if you do. Do they always do what you want?? You created them didn't you??? Why can't you control them??? If you give something free will sometimes they don't do what you want. I don't have kids, but that is irrelevant. If I create something and give them free will, why would I then expect them to immediately surrender that free will and do "what I want them to do"? That sounds like ownership. I'm around nieces/nephews enough that I understand that you have to provide guidance and at times, control. But most of all you need to inspire kids to think proactively and to find out the answers through constant inquisitiveness, not through authoritarian dictatorship. authoritarian dictatorship that not God. He lets you choose freely. He just tells you there are repercutions. Just like if a kid decided to start shop lifting and gets caught.

Which holes would those be? Please specify and show actual data supporting your arguments. Please show how this data contradicts all other data supporting evolution. This could go on forever. There are a million thing. How far is the moon moving away from the earth each year?? How far back do you have to go before nothing works?? No fossil records to support evolution. On and on the list goes. Shall I grab all the articles?? It takes just as much faith to beleive evolution. And point is neither side can be proved. In debates by both sides neither side wins becuase neither side can be proved. So you have chosen your faith, Go ahead and beleive in it. But it is based on theory not fact.

And your arguments involving a never-observed never-measured supernatural phenomenon are somehow better than readily observed and measurable phenomenon reinforced with solid theory? Why is, say, evolution amenable to religious attacks but not quantum theory? They're both 'theories', right? Shouldn't you be 'teaching the controversy' in physics classes? Or do you only go after perceived 'low hanging fruit'? Solid theory??? lol Evolution has so many holes its worse than swiss cheese. It is a theory even if you want to proclaim its your gospel.

And what of Satan? Another of God's creations that went haywire? Made before he even made humans? Seagal have any kids??? I bet you want them to be the best they can be if you do. Do they always do what you want?? You created them didn't you??? Why can't you control them??? If you give something free will sometimes they don't do what you want.

This leads to another contradiction: If God gave man "free will", why require faith in an unseen, unknowable, creator for the demarcation between eternal life and eternal damnation? That sounds like a game created by a sick, manipulative person if I may sound so offensively blunt. At the least, it doesn't sound like the work of a benevolant, loving God who loves his creation. In reality, it sounds like the creation of manipulative-minded humans who wanted to control the thoughts and beliefs and lives of others, and it was written down 2000 years ago and became a factual paradigm through thousands of years of superstition. And what of Satan? Another of God's creations that went haywire? Made before he even made humans? Archenemy: That's a thought provoking question alright! How do I know this world isn't 'perfect' in some context? Perhaps, it IS perfect by someone's definition. In some ways, I would agree that the symbiosis of all life forms and the everyday ongoings of the natural world are indeed perfect- there's been many times in life- both in human situations, like just walking through a crowded market and watching what people are doing- or walking up a mountain and seeing bugs and spider webs and pollen and seedlings flying through the air and water cascading down and the clouds boiling overhead- how could it get any more perfect? So the question is one of relativity again. Maybe saying man isn't perfect is itself a fragmented viewpoint. I will have think on that one. kevbone: Just because "this is SPRAY!!!" doesn't mean every single thread has to immediately degenerate into the internet equivalent of a bunch of 13 year olds sitting around cutting farts and giggling. Even pink chimed in with some brain cells. Now go play outside with the other kids, dinner will be ready at 5. A knuckle sandwich!!! The first pharagraph I think at first it was God plan to be around more. He walked with Adam and eve. I think God can not look upon man and sin. So not to destroy it he isn't here like he was at first. Also it not God who sinned but man who choose go his own way. So it not Gods way.

if you find it fascinating, then please respond to my questions regarding free will! Don't want to go find it, what was it?

That argument is not very good. You could look at a watch and say a man made it. But how does it work?? A man made it!!!! There alot more there to be studied that just saying a man made the watch.

Then leave, I find it very facinating what people beleive and why. Even if it is nothing.

The fundamental problem with the argument from design is that it it extends to "the designer" as well as the designed. The being that you postulate must by definition be more complicated than any object or being than the being designed. Per your argument, it is far more improbable that the being that you postulate could exist without itself being designed by some other agent. If you insist that that - say - the bacterial flagellum could not come into existence without being designed by a higher intelligence, then this condition must also be true for the designe. To deny this is to deny the fundamental proposition that this particular argument is based upon. Wow, Deep. Need to think about that. Are then saying that God is controlled by our limited reasoning?

Okay well here's a serious question: what we have been told about God: He is perfect, infallible, etc...seems to me to contradict his creation of 'himself in his own image'- man is obviously not perfect, and his own creation is killing one another endlessly, oftentimes in His name. So how can a "perfect" creator create such an imperfect being? The answer I always get when asking this of believers is something like "we can't suppose to know the intentions of our creator" which to me is purely evasive an indicative that the respondant either doesn't know, or has never wanted to know. Good question. Here what I think. God did create everything perfect. He created Satan the top angle to top of his creation. But wait, there was one thing left. He created man. A poor pitiful creature. But God decides to make man in Gods image. (whatever that is). This pisses the hell out of Satan who becomes very jealous as he was the top dog and now this crap human that has no power is better. Thus the Devil fall and his drive to destroy humans.. Don't think it was Gods plan but he gave free will to all things he created.

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward. so are you saying evolution is bunk on all levels? FUCK JESUS , FUCK GOD STRIKE ME DOWN PLEASE SO I DON'T HAVE TO SHARE A PLANET WITH SEAHAWKS ANYMORE. anyone who would take on the user name of a nfl team is cheddar in my book anyway. LOL nice post. Not sure what your doing with your post. Being funny, Being an ass, or just an angry person. Three way I could go. 1. Evolution I beleive in micro not macro. But see your willing to hate me over this I think. 2. Maybe angry with God for somereason? Maybe being funny? who knows? 3. Seahawk name. Hell this coming from someone with "pink" and a "666" LOL okay you must be taking the humor route. seahawks, i am definitely an ass, but i save it for dumb shit's like yourself. i am not angry but making decisions on informartion given. anyway if god made you then who the fuck made god. tell me, who made god and why did he make you so dumb. Maybe just maybe Pink God comes from a place where there is no time. Just becuase this universe had a beginning and everything around us has a time, doesn't meen there not another place with out a start. Something will be mysterious until you die. Dumb?? shit look at every living thing. Not even the highest super computer in the world can even figure out a rats brain. Oh wait they just mapped it. it comes down to belief. choice or not. Hope your right for you not for me. if you find a watch in a field would you say it just appeared? Or someone made it? You see what around you, choice. But since I choice to beleive you want to call me a clown. Go fuck yourself with Hitler.

As a good christian, Seahawks, what is your position on free will/predestination the action of God? I've always thought that for the god you believe in to have meaning he can't take action in this world. Didn't understand the second part (meaning). Willing to answer what I think. May not be the answer though as I've never met God. Free will/Predestination - alot arguments about this stuff, I do not claim to have the answers. I think you have been given totaly free will, God didn't want robots. What good was a creation if we all were robots. I think the predesination part comes in becuase God knows what decision you will make before you make them. Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up. Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching.

Well...there is ALOT of things I wish and hope about you...but this is a FOR FUN/FOR INFORMATION site and this is the FOR FUN part of the site. So go sit on it and spin.....God is waiting. What is wrong with you? One of two things. 1. By being a prick he thinks he will get the approval of others here. 2. He's just a prick.

Well...there is ALOT of things I wish and hope about you...but this is a FOR FUN/FOR INFORMATION site and this is the FOR FUN part of the site. So go sit on it and spin.....God is waiting. Kevbone you may not beleive in God but if he does exist I wouldn't mock him or God might decide to prove to you he does exist!! LOL

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward. so are you saying evolution is bunk on all levels? FUCK JESUS , FUCK GOD STRIKE ME DOWN PLEASE SO I DON'T HAVE TO SHARE A PLANET WITH SEAHAWKS ANYMORE. anyone who would take on the user name of a nfl team is cheddar in my book anyway. LOL nice post. Not sure what your doing with your post. Being funny, Being an ass, or just an angry person. Three way I could go. 1. Evolution I beleive in micro not macro. But see your willing to hate me over this I think. 2. Maybe angry with God for somereason? Maybe being funny? who knows? 3. Seahawk name. Hell this coming from someone with "pink" and a "666" LOL okay you must be taking the humor route.

Tell that to my brother's in-laws. At the Thanksgiving table, I could feel the mother's eyes burning a hole in me everytime I reached for the wine. Alcohol is the absolute work of the devil himself. In her eyes, I might as well have stood up and yelled, "FUCK YOU GOD!" Too bad there is such intolerant people out there that give religion bad name. I see those people on TV all the time, They make me sick. But don't judge everything based on the bad apples. There is bad apples in anything.

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward. I believe in God and evolution. So did the last Pope. I beleive in Micro evolution not Macro but big deal. Plenty of science for classroom with out Creationism or evolution.

Like to see you prove he doesn't.

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward.

What do you mean by "religious"? Do I have friends who carry personal beliefs about their origin and have spirituality? Everyone I know, myself included, have that. Do I have friends who go to church and center their life around organized religion? Not really, and it's no accident why. There's a tangible barrier; you can feel the judgment seething out of them even if they never verbalize it. Every conversation drops out some little jab about "getting your life in order" or somesuch as if I projected any sort of discord and was seeking their advice. And you know what Underworld? I'm happy for them. I respect the fact that religion gives them structure and comfort, and they can have it. I wouldn't pretend to suggest that government, media, or the social structure in general attempt to stifle people's religious beliefs. But if Christians, Muslims, or whoever, is going to bring up the issue with me, uninvited, then I'm free to tell them what I think of their system all the same and suggest that they alter the way they view others. And that's only a suggestion. You can take it or leave it. Most of them won't listen long enough to consider it, let alone take it, or leave it. Very mature outlook. First common sense for Kevbone