vertical_hiker

Hey, just curious what the conditions are like on Mt. Hood right now, Sunday, May 24? Ice falling still? Slushy, post-holing early? I was there on Tuesday night when it dropped 5-6" of snow, and a few days before that, ice was falling, and actually a baseball sized ice-ball nailed my friend in the face, splitting his lip and chin open, and rolling tire-sized ice pieces came rolling passed him, as well as taking a few others out on the route? I know there are probably many up there tonight and tomorrow, but I want to make sure the route is in good condition.

On either route, are the roads open up to the trailhead, or darn there pretty close?

Hey, me and some buddies will be heading up to Mt. Baker to climb around May 24th. I'm wondering what the best road/easiest entrance onto the mountain would be, and a good (ideally avalanche-free) approach to the summit? We were thinking the Coleman, but a ranger said the road is closed from 7 miles to the trailhead, which means we'll either hike in through the closed road, or hit a different approach. Any advice? I don't live up there, don't know the roads very well, and have been up Alaska's Denali the last few years. Thanks.

Hey just wanted to put a reminder out there that we are taking our group to the West Buttress in May, as we have a few spaces left. Anyone interested, please email me for an application, or head over to this web page for more information. Please keep this post spray free

Yeah, we have our Denali Expedition trip May 11-June 6, 2008, with a max 10 member team, and a few spaces left. We're a Christian group called Climbing For Christ, and if you are interested in hooking up with us, please go this webpage, and email me. http://www.climbingforchrist.org/Default.aspx?tabid=2417

Hey anyone interested in climbing Hood's main route? I'm getting ready to head back to Alaska's Denali and needed a little exercise, weather, mountain, etc., plus I've never climbed Hood. 1-2 days (I wouldn't mind a 1-day trip, in fact prefer it). Sometime between now (February) and April.

We lost her...she didn't make it.

thanks for the tip. I posted to summitpost as well.

Hey any climbers who lives in or near Colorado, we need you guys to hall your butts up to Alamosa County @ Mt. Blanco above Little Bear lake for help in search and rescue of my friend Lygon Stevens. She is trapped and not found. She and her brother were caught in an avalanche yesterday (Thursday 1-10-08) where it pushed him off a cliff 600ft. and managed to survive until the next morning getting flown out to the hospital, but they are looking for her. Her Dad and her boyfriend are up there now, and some of our friends as well, but we need all the search we can get. We have hopes, but we need any climber to go up there. Tomorrow, the weather is supposed to be really good, and maybe the only chance she has to survive. She's only 20, and she and her brother climbed Denali last May with me and our team. Please anyone. Her are some links below for your information, and it's all over the news. The press is there already and so it won't be hard to find.

wow, I'm impressed. I go away to prep/take some final exams in the last few days, and come back, and 40 pages later, nearly 1000 replies...everybody is still sword fighting. I'm not here to argue though, you guys sucked me in last time, and I would like to stay clear of that. Not worth arguing (man some of you are so hurtful to each other on these forums, the words you use, messed up). I just came back to let you know if there's anything I can pray for, please let me know. I would like to pray for you all, see God do some awesome things in your lives. I know some of you don't believe, but that's ok. You don't have to believe to give your prayers...who knows, God may show himself real to you.

sorry, last post (as I saw before leaving), Yes, that's easy Chocolate. God is perfect, He created perfect beings and perfect land, and then Adam and Eve messed it all up for all of us. Sin entered, and so did corruption into the human race. That's why God came to us, to restore and redeem humanity. Hope that helps. cya.

you know, I'm done here. It was fun chatting with you all. You make for great conversations. It's great that we can have different beliefs and still chat, and have no bitterness towards anyone. I was only here for a denali trip, and now, this forum has sucked me in too far. Hope to climb with you all in the mountains someday. Denali 2008. my email if you have questions: denalisummit@yahoo.com

Again, talkorigins believes in evolution, so of course they are biased, and I can show you a page that will refute that information. That's not necessary though, all I have to say is, I'm still looking for the fossil records (not a few arguable picky ones). Talkorigin is not able to produce a strong argument out of this one, and provides weak to none evidence of fossils. a. Family Ancestry: Hmm, a few monkeys from Africa. b. Horns from who knows what (but they interpret for us) c and d. are interpreted transitional forms,... e.f., and so on... Really, there is not much here. They also relist some already listed in the list. Seriously, my point, evolutionists appear desperate, grasping at straws, I mean come on, there ought to be thousands upon thousands of transitional forms everywhere in our museums, not a small particle webpage devoted to a few arguable fossils. Wake up man, with a quarter of a million species that exist today, there actually should be millions upon millions of transitional forms, fossils, variations of trans-species walking around, not just straight species everywhere, horses, dogs, humans, etc,. Seriously, we should see it everywhere on earth, it should be normal,...but we don't, we totally don't, and I am so dead on right with this, there is no way you can tweak this argument to an evolutionist's benefit because if Talkorigins doesn't provide enough evidence for the fossil record, nobody does. This IS the best evidence for evolution, yet this is exactly what they lack, and is exactly what they need to convince the rest of the world. Can anyone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are totally delusional! There is not one credible scientist in the world who does not believe that evolution is a good theory and there is little chance of that ever changing. I'd love to write a long diatribe arguing the point but I know it will fall on deaf ears. I actually had some sympathy for you in the first 9 pages I read but I had to skip to the end and see that you are insulting what I hold dear and that is scientific research. I thought "Hey, maybe he does just want to find some climbing buddies interested in Christ." but arguing Intelligent Design in your own thread removes whatever credibility you had when JosephH launched the first attack. You want facts about evolution? Here is a website devoted entirely to those who think just like yourself. http://www.talkorigins.org/ in particular http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html There are many Christians that think that evolution is a good theory and that literal interpretations of the Bible are foolish. How can one selectively declare what is literal and what isn't in the Bible? It's all or nothing because otherwise it isn't the true word of god, it's an interpretation by man. There I go. I said I wouldn't argue but I just couldn't help myself. You are correct. There are some people who don't believe in a literal translation of the Bible, and they are usually labeled liberals, but you are incorrect to say many Christians believe in Evolution, there is a group that believes the possibility of seven million year earth, as opposed to 7 day earth, but I have to say, it doesn't matter, nor was anybody there to watch. God did it. That's what matters. I believe in 7 day, not just because it's says in Genesis "Day", and not just that the context there supports it by saying "there was a morning and and an evening, and there was the next day," but the fact that Jesus in the new testament refers to it as a 7-day period (and since He is God in flesh,) that pretty much to me affirms that it was 7-days literally. But again, I wasn't there, so I don't truly know, nor do Scientist because they can't test it. They weren't there. Science used to date the earth by carbon dating, but that only works up to something like 50,000 years (and since water taints the testing, speeds up the life) that version of dating the earth is ill-equipped to measure the age of the earth. Bottom line, we're all going to find out later what happens. Even though some people believe differently, that is perfectly fine for me. We can differ and still be good friends. I had to chime in here with a minor point about the testability of scientific theories. There some theories that you can test by observation, others that you can't. Those theories that can't be tested by direct observation and measurement can still be tested by the extent to which they make useful, verifiable predictions. One of the many predictions of evolutionary theory was that evolutionary relationships should persist at the molecular level. For instance - the hemoglobin molecules generated by humans should more closely resemble the hemoglobin molecules of lemurs than, say - lampreys. These predictions were made several decades before scientists had the technology necessary to test them directly, and well before DNA had been identified as the agent of heredity. The fact that this prediction was borne out by empirical evidence several decades later provides one of many strong lines of evidence in support of the original theory. The case is even stronger when one considers the evidence provided by DNA sequencing. Speaking of DNA - were you aware of the fact that nearly one-half of the human genome is composed of ancient retroviruses (or similar self-repicating elements) that integrated into our genetic material millions of years before the arrival of modern humans? That they splice themselves into a new locale in the genome something like every 30-250 live births? That when these endogenous retroviruses replicate and insert themselves into the genome, they quite often damage the hosts by cripling and turning off necessary genes, or activating quiescent genes in a way that can give rise to cancer and other disorders? That the reason that primates can't synthesize their own vitamin C is because one of these retroelements spliced itself into the middle of a gene that encodes an enzyme required for the biosynthesis of this vitamin? Is any of this consistent with the notion of intelligent design? "The eukaryotic genome has undergone a series of epidemics of amplification of mobile elements that have resulted in most eukaryotic genomes containing much more of this `junk' DNA than actual coding DNA. The majority of these elements utilize an RNA intermediate and are termed retroelements. Most of these retroelements appear to amplify in evolutionary waves that insert in the genome and then gradually diverge. In humans, almost half of the genome is recognizably derived from retroelements, with the two elements that are currently actively amplifying, L1 and Alu, making up about 25% of the genome and contributing extensively to disease. The mechanisms of this amplification process are beginning to be understood, although there are still more questions than answers. Insertion of new retroelements may directly damage the genome, and the presence of multiple copies of these elements throughout the genome has longer-term influences on recombination events in the genome and more subtle influences on gene expression." Read the whole thing. http://www.genome.org/cgi/content/full/12/10/1455 yes, I understand most of what you said, although, I know that style of writing, you didn't necessarily need to show off in order to prove yourself, though it did sound cool. You bring this before a jury, and they won't buy into it, not enough evidence. You had me for a while until you said retroelements and millions of years. That's the problem. Scientists cannot put together a theory like this and with a non-empirical interpretation throw in millions of years ago, when there are too many problems and questions with this research, since there's so much still to discover about the human body, and the viruses are so unpredictable on how it will treat the body, how the body will react. I'll research that more though.

Sounds like somebody would do well to rent that Nova episode "Evolution on Trial" - so you might avoid sounding this ignorant of the topic in the future. And as for your "Talk to Jesus" line, well, I'm not in the habit of talking to guys that have been dead for 2000 years. There's medication for that. I'm talking to you, mofo. Thanks I will rent that. I'm totally open to learning, and if I'm wrong, I would like to know. I've studied evolution and science, and if I'm ever proven wrong, I will change my view. For now, evolution (that is the change from one species to another) like Cat to Dog = Cog or something like that, appears hopeless, not in that order. Does life have changes and variations,...yes, but within the species,...not evolving into another species. There are horses, and all kinds of horses. There are dogs and all kinds of dogs, but I don't ever see interspecies walking around, do you? It's not normal. Darwin even said that what's missing are the links. And today, the missing links are still missing. There are 1/4 of million species in this world, and you're telling me you can't find millions, even thousands, at least hundreds throughout history (millions of years) of any transitional fossils (the Best evidence by the way)? I mean, you may have a few weak excuses, but still, that should be your best cards for THE BEST EVIDENCE FOR evolution, and that's exactly what they need to make a water-tight argument. I had a science teacher's manual of how to teach evolution for a public school with questions kids may ask(I'm telling you, I've studied this stuff blue in the face). For example, if a kid asks, isn't there a gap problem? The teacher is to respond something like, yes, but we are working on it, and here's an example (in the entire book, is only one(1) example). Guess what the example is, that they really want to sell the kids on this idea. It's a freaking Wasp-Bee. That is it! It looks like a wasp. That's all the guns they had. I'm sorry, but somebody forgot to tell the Writers, that is called speciation (change from within a species), not a transitional missing link. Actually, there's a website where if you can actually scientifically (empirically) prove Evolution to be true, you will receive $250,000. Funny thing is nobody's claimed the prize yet. Here's the Page: EMPIRICALLY PROVE EVOLUTION FOR PRIZE HERE

You are totally delusional! There is not one credible scientist in the world who does not believe that evolution is a good theory and there is little chance of that ever changing. I'd love to write a long diatribe arguing the point but I know it will fall on deaf ears. I actually had some sympathy for you in the first 9 pages I read but I had to skip to the end and see that you are insulting what I hold dear and that is scientific research. I thought "Hey, maybe he does just want to find some climbing buddies interested in Christ." but arguing Intelligent Design in your own thread removes whatever credibility you had when JosephH launched the first attack. You want facts about evolution? Here is a website devoted entirely to those who think just like yourself. http://www.talkorigins.org/ in particular http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html There are many Christians that think that evolution is a good theory and that literal interpretations of the Bible are foolish. How can one selectively declare what is literal and what isn't in the Bible? It's all or nothing because otherwise it isn't the true word of god, it's an interpretation by man. There I go. I said I wouldn't argue but I just couldn't help myself. You are correct. There are some people who don't believe in a literal translation of the Bible, and they are usually labeled liberals, but you are incorrect to say many Christians believe in Evolution, there is a group that believes the possibility of seven million year earth, as opposed to 7 day earth, but I have to say, it doesn't matter, nor was anybody there to watch. God did it. That's what matters. I believe in 7 day, not just because it's says in Genesis "Day", and not just that the context there supports it by saying "there was a morning and and an evening, and there was the next day," but the fact that Jesus in the new testament refers to it as a 7-day period (and since He is God in flesh,) that pretty much to me affirms that it was 7-days literally. But again, I wasn't there, so I don't truly know, nor do Scientist because they can't test it. They weren't there. Science used to date the earth by carbon dating, but that only works up to something like 50,000 years (and since water taints the testing, speeds up the life) that version of dating the earth is ill-equipped to measure the age of the earth. Bottom line, we're all going to find out later what happens. Even though some people believe differently, that is perfectly fine for me. We can differ and still be good friends.

However, with that epistemology, science is stuck, trapped, because it can only prove what it can test and touch. When God comes in the picture it all makes sense. He's the designer, and we're the design. Simple. Evolution is a bad theory that got a lot of hype in the 1925 scopes trial, where some putz didn't know how to defend himself, and all the evidence the evolutionist teacher used is now debunk. Many are still trying to keep it alive, while everybody else in the world is figuring this theory is no longer holding water...

All you guys talking about monkeys to prove evolution. Definitely not enough, just go to Africa, where they found mostly all those monkey fossils/bones, and realize, wow,... monkeys still live in Africa. There is a junkyard of fossils there. Does it prove evolution, no. Then what does?....What proves evolution? We need facts that SHOW evolution to be true. In science, we are taught that evolution is still a theory, in college, even my philosophy of Science class classifies evolution as Theory. It's not fact. It's not verifiable. In order for something to be fact, it has to be verifiable and tested verifiable. You can't test it in a lab. You can't do experiments. All you can do "scientifically" is call it a theory.

I like how you avoid what I wrote, that JESUS said He is THE only way to Heaven,... If God wrote it, then He's the one you need to deal with, not me. (I don't know if you have been reading these threads at all, but my responsibility is to point the way, and that means to the Word, the Bible), so take it up with Him.

correction, Christians don't sell. They point the way. All we can do is point, it's other people's choices if they want to listen, not ours. Jesus is not a product. He is God in flesh, and took Pink's place on the cross, as all of us. We all deserve what we should get, and I deserve it more than any of you, thank God he is graceful. "THE" Way. No arrogance there. Actually, you're correct. There was no arrogance at all when I said that. In fact, I can say I have ONE biological dad, and only one, without showing arrogance, because I really do only have one. Besides that, I didn't write the Bible. Jesus is the one who said, "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life, nobody comes to the Father EXCEPT through me." (Capital letters added), John 14:6, so if you want to call anybody arrogant, just call Jesus arrogant because He's the one who said it. Again, just pointing out the Way the Bible says it.

Are you calling yourself a child? I'm going to Denali for crying out loud, not the local kindergarten.

It doesn't matter what I think? What's more important is what God says about it? Again, I'm just telling you what God says, and I am compassionate when I say this. God says in the Bible quite clearly that anybody who chooses to engage in any sexual activity outside of God's original plan of marriage is considered sinning (sex with animals, sex with boyfriend/girlfriend, sex with same sex, adultery, etc,). There are people who are Christians who have gay struggles, and they love God, and they continue to strive to be like Christ, and I respect that. Someone close to me is gay, and I love them. For those who choose to say to God F--- you, then... yeah, their story has a different ending. Will any of these people go to Heaven?,...I have no right to judge because I'm not God, only He knows what will ultimately happen, but the Bible says ANYONE who's name was not found written in the book life, will not be in Heaven? Straight up. We have a chance though. Hitler even had a chance if he repented. God's love extends to anyone. How does one get to Heaven? Romans 10:9-10,13, John 1:10, John 14:6. 1John 1:9 Now for gay rights, gay people can live as they please, and they have the right to, but I think most would agree you shouldn't change the definition of marriage. I know most people would agree that every gay person ought to be treated with respect just as anyone, not with special rights, but with the same rights as everyone else. Again, refer to notes above, anybody who doesn't accept Christ cannot enter Heaven, not because they are not good enough, but because God cannot allow sin in his presence, and thus, you have to be perfect to get to Heaven, which is why Jesus came, to take away our sin, so we can stand perfect before the Father. It's not about good works. I thought before I turned Christian, that I would be in Heaven because I was a pretty good person, not really a bad person. The book of James, chptr 2, says it only takes one sin to separate us from God. That's why we need Christ. Good luck without him. Prayer is already allowed in school, but a teacher, or any school representative cannot make or ask students to pray, and that's fine with me. I don't want any teacher forcing me to pray, or any of my kids. Then we're back to early History lessons. For intelligent design, again people have different views, and that's ok. I think if the schools have nothing to fear, that they are so confident in the theory of evolution, then at least bring up the Creation theory to let the students know there are other beliefs of how the world began, let the students and parents decide. This is the education system after all, where we should be able to hear all sides of the argument, not hitlerism teaching the young youth only what his version of history. Hope that answers your questions. Thanks.

correction, Christians don't sell. They point the way. All we can do is point, it's other people's choices if they want to listen, not ours. Jesus is not a product. He is God in flesh, and took Pink's place on the cross, as all of us. We all deserve what we should get, and I deserve it more than any of you, thank God he is graceful.

Vertical Hiker should not have expected a solidly warm reception on this bulletin board and he's going to have to expect some people to be quite hostile if he introduces himself to other climbers on Mt. McKinley by saying "Hi. I"m here for a Cristian climb..." btw, no such thing as "Christian climb" just like there is no such thing as Christian music. Music is music, and climbing is climbing. Our group is here for a climb on the mountain to reach the summit, and along the way, we're going to represent Christ. I know not to expect a "warm reception," but I was too ideal to expect most to believe not all Christians are the same.

Belief is a choice. If this were untrue, there would be people who believed but did not want to and people who wanted to believe but couldn’t. This is not the case; belief *is* a choice. So, given the constant, inescapable bath of Christianty and Jesus-talk in America, how can you presume that any climbers “need to hear” the Good News? It seems very arrogant that you would think it was your place and role to put your religion in climbers’ faces. They have heard it all ad nauseum. If they wished to pursue it, they would. Add your frikkin guitar and that’s a tasin’. When you are saying you're not weak-minded or needing a security blanket, and calling us "arrogant",...sorry anyone who blows irrational chunks on a mountain climber's post in judgement, with a measure of intolerance sounds like they're afraid, and weak-minded to me. It's obvious a few of you are offended and afraid. That's fine with me. Maybe we're all weak minded, some are just better at admitting it. Btw, I don't recall any of Jesus' followers passing out security blankets when they followed him? Another thing, as I read some of these posts, I can't help but to laugh at how you think all Christians are going to get in your face and try and convert you. Please stop. Quit whining! Stop building strawmen, and feeling proud that you're tearing them down,...you're not saying anything new. Cliche's everywhere. Get over your prejudices, you're probably not going to Denali anyway next year, and if so, we'll probably be passing by...