I have enjoyed this thread greatly. I started reading it just for the entertainment value alone, but now I feel like I need to offer up what little a broken down soft body like me can.
I must first admit that Marty is my best friend, and offer up a little personal history; The first time I met Marty was at Dishman. I was top roping klingon into submission, while he and Russ where working out the crux moves of "The dull cycle". He was best man at my wedding. I have some knowledge of his character and his personality. I also have an opinion on the some of the topics that have been touched in this thread, as well as a few related observations.
1. Marty loves to climb rock. This is the central feature of his existence. Marty works to earn money so that he can buy hangers bolts and feed himself while he climbs. In the past 15 years climbing rock has been the focus of his life. I know of no other person who I have met that takes climbing or any other activity as seriously as Marty does. Climbing is an integral part of who Marty is. I know that he would never do anything that he even remotely thought was bad for the sport of climbing.
2. Marty does not climb for anyone else but Marty. Climbing is not a social event for Marty. Marty does not seek the approval of others or recognition of others for his climbing achievements. The popular belief that Marty wrote and published his guidebook to somehow feed his ego could not be further from the truth. He wrote and published his book in an effort to make money to fund his climbing and route building without resorting to stacking rocks. Other than being an interesting diversion, I doubt that the book could be considered a hugely successful venture.
3. On many occasions Marty and I have discussed the topic of route chipping. The practice of chipping any free climbable portion of an established route so as to make it climbable by a person of lesser skill than the person who first climbed it is deplorable. The problem is that the definition of chipping is quite loose. If a climb has a loose and obviously hanging flake, is it chipping to pull the flake off, possibly saving the next belayer's or even climbing parties life? What about cleaning, or trundling, is that not a form of chipping? Are pitons chipping, or bashies? In many popular sandstone areas the repeated placement of cams has formed "Cam pockets", is this a form of chipping.
4. As long as no law is broken in the placing of a bolt or the chipping of a hold, what right does anyone have to remove the bolt or take issue with it's placement. If the rock is on public property and it is legal to place the bolt, which is an established recreational use of public property in most places at this time, then it would not be right to infringe on the recreational privileges of someone else by chopping his or her bolts. The same could be said for chipping. Entire crags have been drilled and chipped out of blank walls and caves, in the eyes of the law this is exercising the right to use public property in a legal and recreational manner. I personally am far to lazy to drill or chip a route, but I fail to see how it could even approach the level of destruction as the wholesale quarrying and grinding up any and all exposed limestone within easy reach of a road. Which by the way is not only legal on public land after securing the proper permits and paying of fees, has left very little limestone around to bolt or chip. While this line of thinking would lead to the question of "Chipping down" established routes, which all agree is a shame, it's also a shame to see a strip mine, but we sure would miss the copper that makes our computers and electrical infrastructure possible. These points are just opposite ends of the land use issue, when we allow any access or use of public wild lands we open the discussion of what activities are to be allowed and to what limits will be placed on the users. For years I have heard the same holier than thou argument of "Trad" climbers that bolts scar the rock, and should be banned. The truth is that any use of wild lands scar the environment and forever alter it, but what is the use of having wild public land if there is no entry or use allowed? If you think bolting should be banned, or regulated, or that chipping should not be allowed, lobby a lawmaker, circulate a petition, mobilize the community for a positive cause you believe in. After public law or policy has been changed, for better or worse, then we can debate the merits of that instead of the merits of the thoughts and supposed actions of others.
5. Climbing "Ethics" are nothing more than the opinions and beliefs of a given individual, no more no less. They have value in as much as the person holding them has value, they do not bind even the person who holds them, and only by the exercise of them consistently can they influence others by example. Touting the superiority of your ethics over those of someone else is a waste of time, especially on a message board, where words are typed without having to actually defend them in real time. My ethics include the unpopular belief that software and music should not be copied and distributed without paying for it, I don't waste my time preaching to the "Bill Gates is rich enough" crowd. Lead by example, perhaps your ethics will catch on when others see the value of them. Teach your children to do what you think is right, if you don't have children then volunteer as a big brother or sister and teach those children. Do something positive with all this moral indignation.
6. As for actually retro bolting at Dishman, Marty had nothing to do with it. I don't know for sure who did it, I have been told that a Grady fellow did it, but I have no first hand knowledge, only hearsay. But if I were still climbing there I would welcome the addition, even if it was grid bolted. I would not personally retro bolt the routes, because I don't think they warrant the effort or expense, I prefer steeper limestone. The retro bolter has just as much claim to the use of the rock as any other citizen. If he or she wishes to utilize the rock, and feels that additional bolts are required, then who are any of us to question, or worse yet threaten that person. The argument that the bolter has altered the precious rock is just as flawed. Climbers alter the rock they climb, just as hikers by definition make trails that alter the forest, climbers put up routes that alter the rock. Even the most sacred of Spokane climbing cows, the dihedral at Mini, even before the bolting was cleaned, climbed and worked into a route that was visible to the naked eye from the ground.
7. In closing I can't help but think that this whole discussion has gotten blown way out of hand. I have heard talk in the climbing community of physical threats or perceived physical threats relating to this discussion, this is absurd. Many of the posts have sunk to personal attacks and petty, childish jabs. A discussion thread is meant to be just that a discussion, where ideas and thoughts are debated in an open and civilized manner. Reading the thread was much like watching an episode of South Park, it's undeniably entertaining, does pose a few interesting questions, but still a little to vulgar to let the kids watch. Although that does bring up another interesting question, which poster is most like the Cartman character?
Wacker
P.S. shouldn't be too terribly hard to discover who I am!
