Dr.Nil

Erden, *No one* said that AAC requires a guarantee, nor any money at all! Any thoroughly carried out investigation will cost, and require an economic guarantee, as you are certain to find out if you try to arrange it on your own (and 1kUSD is on the low side). (Btw, I'm not connected to the AAC or UIAA, not located in the US, do not represent any organization, and any opinions I express are solely my own.) I fully understand your wish to find out everything yourself, as soon as possible. However, be aware that carrying out an investigation yourself, including selecting investigator/laboratory, may legally work in your disfavor, and I strongly advise against it. I think that you should ask AAC and/or UIAA for advice on how to proceed, not necessarily carrying out the investigation. This is because they are simply the appropriate authorities in the area. I apologize if I have expressed myself in any way that could be misinterpreted. I wish as much as anyone the accident can be explained quickly.

It is not my intention to push people around, but I think there are some urgent issues. Again, no offense intended. The following are only my suggestions, but I think you may agree with me on the urgency. Erden: I hear that AAC is well aware of the accident, and I believe that Jed Williamson is expecting you. I will PM his e-mail address to you, and it is probably a good idea if you contact him as soon as possible. I understand that you are planning to finance the investigation yourself. I neither think you should feel obliged to do that, neither is it suitable that an investigation is paid by anyone directly involved in the accident. I have information that the cost for an investigation is on the order of 1,000 USD. I would like to suggest that a fund is organized, which can provide the necessary financial guarantee to AAC or another investigating organization. It would be ideal if someone familiar with Washington state legislation, and having the formal qualifications, could take care of this. I have no doubt that we can cover the costs collectively. I would also like to suggest that you transfer the relevant equipment you still have into the custody of the county sheriff, if possible. Then it will all be in one, safe place, and help to eliminate speculation. I believe it may also be advisable from a legal point of view. Paul (Paul detrick): It would be highly appreciated if you could make a detailed record of where you removed the Cam #2, and the TCU, if you have the opportunity. You could do as follows: 1. Find white adhesive tape, 1-2 inches wide. Climb the route on top rope, and stick sections of tape horizontally to one side of the route every five feet, creating a kind of huge, vertical ruler, each "notch" being, say, about a foot. You can measure the five-feet distance by preparing a cordelette, or simply by measuring the length on your body. 2. Take several high-resolution photos of the route including the stripes. Also include photos of the base of the route, as well as the talus slope, and any other relevant locations. 3. Rap down the route and carefully identify the positons of the devices you removed. Also, take photos of these locations, preferrably timing it so that you have sunlight into the crack. It is useful if you include a size reference in the pictures, for instance, a biner. 4. Try to find the locations of the two cams that pulled by looking for scratches, and document these if you can find them, even if there is little hope that they can be found. It could be an idea to temporarily cordon off the route, until it has been thoroughly investigated. 5. When photos are ready, comments on the placements from climbers familiar with the route would be valuable, on this list or elsewhere. Please don't feel harrassed. I write this because I'm anxious that weather conditions may soon render careful investigations difficult or impossible. Also, it is important to document your observations, while you still have them fresh in memory.

Erden, and friends: As we can see from your postings, you are very experienced and knowledgeable climbers. You have done an outstanding job explaining to everyone what happened during the accident, and patiently made yourself available to everyone who wants to ask questions. Nevertheless, very humbly I would like to ask you to refrain from testing equipment yourselves, but instead please restrict yourselves to documenting any and all data you remember, or can find, pertinent to the accident. I have no doubts about the qualifications of you, your friends at REI, or others who have offered to help in this forum, but I would like to emphasize the importance of consulting a neutral, accredited organization for any testing, which may cause irreversible changes in the equipment. Please don't be offended, but such testing does need to be meticulously planned, and executed under laboratory conditions, by an objective party. For advice on how to proceed, I would suggest that you please contact the AAC Safety Commission (John E. Williamson) and the UIAA Safety Commission representative in the US (Helmut Microys), who is also an AAC delegate. I don't have their current contact info, but you can surely obtain it through the AAC, by phone 303.384.0110 or fax 303.384.0111 (8 a.m.-5 p.m. MST). Again, a sincere thanks for your efforts, and please continue to be careful.

Erden, I hope your arm is healing quickly, and that you are back climbing soon. I haven't seen anything on how you were attached to the rock. Could this be understood as your actually NOT being attached to anything else than the rope brake? Can you confirm? Take care