North_by_Northwest
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Posts posted by North_by_Northwest
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Way to paraphrase Trask...
One clarification though:
Law Enforcement Rangers can't cut it as real cops, hence the attitude.
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If those of you who claim that "it's all about the oil" have an argument hiding behind this assertion, I'd love to hear it. If not, at least find an objection to attacking Iraq that does justice to the seriousness of this issue.
J_B -What you said above is well thought-out and interesting. I had not considered what you said. However, I don't think the argument you addressed is the main one we'd have to worry about if Bush was doing this for oil.
The argument that I've heard (and it does hold some water) is that Bush is paying off those who supported him into power. He has been very open about using his position in office to repay those who have supported him. Oil companies have been his biggest supporters. U.S. occupation of Iraq would not benefit us as a nation, but it would open up their country and make it safer for private development. The same companies that put him in office could turn a HUGE PROFIT.
Just playing devil's advocate and explaining that side here. I'm still for going into Iraq based on the WMD/terrorist connections and possibility of incidents.
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No, Muffy. On 60 Minutes they first said that Ray is Trask, then they recanted that statement. Then they said that Tillamook OR is the home of cheese, but took it back when Wisconsin was taken into account.
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Billy I see your points about China, but I think we're still in the same Cold War standoff as far as territory and resources go. Economy-wise we're pretty warm with the Chinese-the result of their newfound prosperity-and I don't think they'll do anything to risk that.
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Luna: Which of Jim's statements are you referring to?
That Tillamook is the home of cheese or that Ray is Trask?
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That's a nice HST quote ScottP.
I agree that Larry the Tool and most of his Law Enforcement Rangers are serious cocks with a big hard-on for anyone they can bust.
He's not the one enforcing the Enchantments Permit system though, the people who do are the honest and hard working ones that have the best interest of the area in mind.
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Why would China have a problem with us now?
Who do you think helped create their growing economic powerhouse?
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Slothrop: I think Iraq is more of a threat to us than N. Korea. Iraq doesn't have any real allies, it's had it's ass kicked by us in the past and it has strong fundamentalist/terrorist connections. I'd say they're much more likely to do harm to U.S. soil by sneakily delivering some sort of "bad bomb" as an act of terrorism. They're crazy, wounded and scared. At this point we I think we should finish them off humanely and cleanly before they do something real bad.
N. Korea is definitely a more formidable enemy, but less crazy and dangerous I would think. They might try and take a little territory but I doubt they'd face us. Their ties with China should keep them from doing anything too rash in regards to the U.S. They are also more likely to deliver a "bad bomb" through conventional military means anyway, in which case we'd have a better chance of blocking their attack.
I'm with Will on colonialist Israel getting their asses back to their own territory too. It doesn't matter who's at fault in that stupid situation: the Israelis have the power to end it and foster peace and they aren't.
Cheese! Are they still making CHEESE???? Isn't that contrary to international agreement? Obviously, this can not and will not be tolerated in a post 7-11 world!!!!
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Depends on what you're willing to settle for. There are some super light ones out there, but how long will they last and how much protection will they really give you?
I bought the standard OR model. It gives great protection and weighs 1lb and a few ounces. It's not the best, but I find it's pretty much bombproof and very light at the same time. It's a good compromise in my opinion.
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Yeah, spanker's TR rocks.
I remember many alpine starts*, heinious approaches**, unbelievable top outs***, and dangerous descents****, from my trip to Vegas. Thanks for sharing your story.
*An alpine start is when you wake up at eight because the weather sucks and sit in your car drinking and smoking bowls and reading the guidebook until noon.
**A heinious approach is when you have trouble finding the Sahara Buffett because you are already drunk and/or baked.
***An unbelievable top-out is when you can't believe you just finished your twelfth glass of champagne at the All-You-Can-Drink Sunday buffett.
****A dangerous descent is when you have to run out of the Buffett, but it's difficult because you have so much food stuffed in your pants.
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I don't think anyone who cares about the environment at all can argue that the Enchantments don't need to be managed as a recreation area. The place would be destroyed if it wasn't for a system limiting use: the Enchantment Permit system.
Nobody cares when they are getting harrassed. It's all the same govt to anyone out there. Nobody resents any good work they do. But lets talk about where the major faults areThe point here is that the Enchantment Permit fees go to fund the management of the Enchantments. If you pay the fees you are not donating money to deforestation or asshole LE Rangers, you are donating money to restoring alpine meadows and protecting the Enchantments through permit management. Money from the Fee Demo goes to rec and wilderness projects and money from the Enchantment Permit system goes to the management of the Enchantments. More specifically, money from the Enchantment Permits goes to pay one wilderness ranger to be in the 'chants every weekend for the season, and to pay the administrative costs of the permit system (printing permits, etc.)
Matt -Whether or not your moniker for the FS has any truth behind it has no relevance to the Fee Demo or the Enchantment Permits. The branches of the FS that deal with timber sales and such do not recieve money from the Fee Demo or the Enchantments Permits.
True, the permit system is not the most convenient for climbers, but we can all work around it. There's lots that can be done in a day, and plenty of opportunity to get permits. Maybe those who don't want to get permits should wait until they can do it in a day.
If FS people have had negative responses to your climbing goals it is probably because climbers are always trying to find exceptions to the rules and many feel they are better or cleaner than other users. When I worked I often got the cold shoulder from climbers who passed me on the trail, and usually I was just interested in what route they were doing, what conditions were, etc., not harassing. (For the record, I never gave out a ticket when I was a ranger, but dealt with a whole lot of shit from people.)
The situation would be better if climbers were a little more friendly to the FS.
I wonder why the USFS cops have such a bad reputation for being meter-maids who are useless for tracking down real criminals? There are LE officers who aren't assholes like that and do get the dirty work done -- why don't any of them work for the USFS?Because being an FS LE Ranger is a cush job-no danger, just pissed off climbers. It attracts cops who can't cut it in the big city. Larry the Tool probably took his current position after being politely excused from the LAPD for beating innocent children or something. It would be nice to get a few good cops in the woods-there is one in Lworth, an old retired Scandanavian guy who's pretty decent to deal with. He doesn't work much though.
Dont be too self righteous since you have worked for them.I'm not trying to be self righteous Ray. I just find it really frustrating when people don't know the facts. I'm not saying we should all pay the parking fees, as I said: I don't always pay. I just get so sick of people saying they are protesting the Fee Demo for whatever reason-it's a weak argument.
The fact is we just don't want to pay. And that's alright with me as long as we all know why we're not paying-it's an inconvenience and a pain-and not getting the facts wrong about where the money goes.
I didn't mean to flame so much in my original post, I hold much respect for both Matt and Ray as climbers and as good company. I just find this situation really frustrating-I think there is a lot of misunderstanding everywhere.
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To answer Hiromi's second question: if you are caught camping overnight you get a $100 fine. (Hint: if you are carrying a sleeping bag or pad, or just a really large pack you're going to get harassed.)
You also might be walked out by the ranger. If you resist they will call the Law Enforcement Ranger and follow you until the Tools arrive to cuff you and drag you out.
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Having worked in the Leavenworth and Lake Wenatchee Districts as a Wilderness Ranger, I have to call BULLSHIT on many of you:
The helicopters and trash around the dams (Snow, Colchuck and Klonaqua esp.) are from the irrigation companies. Technically they own the land (forced buy from the FS I believe) they land on and build dams on. The rednecks who come in helos and bring chainsaws and other shit are coming against FS wilderness laws. They stay and camp for about a week, fishing illegally and cutting trees down every year. They also lie about when they plan on going so that the FS wilderness manager will not be able to catch them in the act. (It's total bullshit, I know, I was sent to catch them at Klonaqua once and missed them by a few days. I spent all day cleaning up the trash they left and even hauled out about 20lbs of cans and pots left behind.)
The idea that climbers don't impact the Enchantments (or anywhere) as much as other users is false and conceited.
"These monies along with my tax dollars would be more than enough to support the maintanance of the lands IF the overmanaged Deforest Service cuts its Beauracratic top heavy Managment and their penchant for rediculous spending. You and I both know this will never happen. Instead they will charge us until we can't afford to go. Maybe this is why I have a hard time respecting the overpaid Mountain Meter MAIDS!!!!"
Don't confuse the different branches of the FS. Larry the Tool and his fatass Law Enforcement Ranger friends get big comfy SUVs with cameras and all that bullshit, but they are not the ones who are enforcing the Enchantment Permit system. Larry and friends (these guys truly are assholes, I had to work with them,) only enforce camping and parking. Whoever said they don't have the balls to enforce crime is right.
Now, the Enchantment Permit system (subject of this thread) is enforced by the wilderness branch of the Leavenworth USFS. These guys are underpaid, underfunded and sent in to the backcountry with old shitty gear. Most are volunteers, those that get paid rarely make more than $10 (and they're on call 24 hrs a day when in the field). Most of the time these folks are working they are NOT HANDING OUT TICKETS or even patrolling for passes and permits, they are cleaning up other people's trash and shit, fixing trails and making FS lands look better. The wilderness people are only stiff on you when you break a rule in the Enchantments, and that's because everyone (like Weekend Climberz) has an excuse to be there when they shouldn't be. They've heard all kinds of bullshit from people who are sneaking into the Enchantments without permits and they aren't going to believe anybody anymore, they're just going to give tickets and go by the book.
If you get caught you get caught.
The purpose of the Enchantment fines is to deter people from breaking the rules: if the fine was soft everyone would be back there every weekend and the place would be too trashed to ever clean up.
The money collected from the fees and fines goes to the Wilderness program, not the Law Enforcement Rangers. The money is used to keep our lands clean, not to harass people.
The Fee Demo sucks and it's completely unfair to both backcountry users and the FS, but protesting it won't even make a dent in it: it's already permanently in place. The only result is that the FS programs that need the money the most and that do the most for your lands will be underfunded and desperate. (For the last two seasons the wilderness program has only had one vehicle, one full time year-round employee, and a pile of shitty worn out gear from the early 90s.) The fact is that you're not getting taxed twice for the land. The Gov took most of your taxes for the rec lands and sent them elsewhere. You're half-taxed. The other half will have to come from the fee Demo until the Gov gets staightened up.
Those of you "protesting" the "DeForest Service" because you think they don't protect the forests, give too many tickets, tax you twice, don't wipe your ass, etc. need to get off your mountain of bullshit and just admit that you don't like paying the fees and getting parking passes because it's inconvenient and annoying.I don't like to pay it either, and I often times don't, but at least I don't lie to myself and others about why I don't pay.
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PLEXUS: what the hell man? Reporters are supposed to smoke! They put the number of packs per day and what brands they smoke on their resumes. You could lose your job if you quit! No one takes a non-smoking reporter seriously, imagine if you show up for an interview and you don't smell like stale Marlboros and spilt coffee, those people are going to walk all over you man
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Actually, my last job was as a Private Investigator.
I don't think I'm gonna do that stuff anymore though.
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They do that to troll for clients. It's a dating service. If you respond you're probably single and on the hunt, so they figure you'll be willing to pay for their service.
I got one repeatedly and finally tracked down the source.
Some of the messages get really creative and entertaining and can be worth reading if you get them once in a while.
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I've heard that's a great ski when conditions are awesome but still avalanche - .I had to hike up there in 90 degree weather the summer before last, that was shitty - -. All I thought about was how great it would be to ride down while I was on the hot dusty descent.
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Nice one Iain.
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Nice Robob!
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No people at all? I know some people who were supposed to have been out there all weekend. I would have been there if it wasn't for this damn job. (Good thing I'll be unemployed again soon.)
What'd ya climb Paul?
Scramble the fighters!
in Spray
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Small punks are the worst kind. They're willing to do something totally rash to get the attention and power they think they deserve, and they have nothing to lose.
Bigger more powerful punks can be reasoned with and dealt with because they already have power and don't want to lose it in a fight.
Read: Saddam is a young punk wanna be gangsta, mommas boy pranksta come set trippin' in the real G's territory. He got a deuce deuce in his draw's an he hot to pop shots. We gotta put his ass behind bars or six feet deep.