MtnBoy

My party spent two weeks to get upto about 17,500 about 500 feet shy of the pass onto the plateau. We and weather coming in and were running out of fuel. I never forget the sense of disapointment and wonder as we tried one last dash to reach the summit. We reasched the pass, and looked down hill and all the way across the plateau and knew it couldn't be done in time. Great mountain, great skiing and great to drink with a bunch of crazy japaneese physicists who were up there collecting ice core samples. Next time I would have tried to bum fuel off of folks heading down. Cheers

I have met Fred hear and there a few time. I treasure those moments for the day I can tell my kids about meeting him and show them his routes. A true legend in his own time.

1. The only way to know for sure is to go and take a look at it. The approach you can see from the saddle. The chute you can see from the base, etc. It usually forms a deep runnle late in the season that turns into a bowling alley. Look for evidence of this before committing. 2. There are a number of stress crevasses that form. The safest ones, are ones you can see. It would be preferable to wait until earlier in the season. 3. I would go up to the saddle and see who is giong over. Perhaps you can share a rope. Often people camp at the saddle for the climb the next morning. If not, cut back over and check out the West Crater Rim or dog route.

See-more, I agree with you in you comment where distance and accessibility limit access to only those who are interested. I think that it is important for people to have the opportunities to easily access the wilds. Otherwise, when it comes time to appropriate funds there will not be the constituency to support the allocation. Additionally, most of us go up in a urban setting and have to get our early experiences some how. Thanks

The most awe inspiring aspect of the route is looking up the maw of the thing. You don't normally think of Oregon climbing in terms of a sight like that. Great climb guys.

With the Adams recovery, a small plane had gone down on the mountain in the same general area a year or so before the brother was lost. The previous year from his recovery, portions of the plane melted out of the base of glacier. This supposedly gave a indication of the time of transit for an object through the glacier and thus hope that the climber might be soon to emerge.

Did anyone know what happened on Iceicle Creek on Sat? Looked like a technical rescue 400' up, just up the road from Givlers Dome?

Thanks for the encouragement. How is September in the area? Is the snow a-fly-in yet?

Here is a link to an interesting article that explores the balance between maintaining access to Mt. Rainier and protecting wilderness areas and endangered species. http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=pacificprainier24&date=20070624

Nice report, Looked like a wonderful trip. What did you think about the conditions for the west ridge? I am thinking about heading up on Wed. Thanks

Local SAR groups will often use searching for long lost climbers as summer training exercises. The trick is waiting until conditions are stable and safe to check the top of the elliot.

Park 7, In the Alps there is a dedicated corp of 2 man heli rescue teams using high altitude lamas. Because there is such a large amount of access for the un-initiated through trains, gondolas, trams, via ferrettas etc. there are a large number of rescues for what would be relatively minor occurances. Litterally sprained ankles. The problems comes in when people don't plan on taking care of them selves. This does vary from counrty to country (ie. norway is much more self reliant than Germany). I and a lot of people carry a sam splint or know how to improvise one, and walk out with out the need for rescue. People in the alps know there is a rescue service, and expect to use it. Imagine being the european dispatcher and deciding between what is serious and not, so you don't take a chance and send out more liberally than you normally would. Imagine the fall out. Nanny State refers to soceities where people expect the government to take care of them rather than on their own recognacence. Thanks for the discussion and we really should move this topic off of the Oregon forum

1. The local counties sponsor and train regularly with the volunteer SAR personnel. They often hire and train specialized deputies with SAR experience. Most recreationally orented counties do this and most are Very professional. 2. The PJ's used to be based at PDX with their rescue helo's. They are great, but their full time job takes them over seas alot and they are not always available. I which our senators and congressment could get them re-based in the area. The PJ's train for their full time job by providing rescue services here at home. 3. SAR VOlunteers are professional in that they need a min amount of annual training time, meet physical and technical qualification and are sponsored and insured by the USFS and the local Counties. In other countries, such as in the ALPS there are morse dedicated assesset because there are tens of thousands of people in the mountains and those are nanny states where you expect a chopper ride for a sprained ankle (litterally). 4. Finally each SAR district has people on call and often run patrols during busy times like weekends. The current system is pretty good considering it is mostly done with volunteer labor and a lot of donations. Please remember that and look up you local SAR group and support them Thanks,

MLU's for every one. Haveing trained to use the MLU finding system, they are not the "panic button" cure all that some seem to think they are. They send out a lot of false signals that typically need multiple readings from multiple locations to figure out where people are. Due to the weather, a MLU would probably not have made a difference in the case of the climber found today. There are a number of applications where people should start carring a location system, such as driving from Seattle to Gold Beach. Sorry about the sarcasm, but we can not safety proof everything. Not having one is nothing about being Macho. I would be more concerned with a mountain full of people with them, expecting rescue at the first moment of distress. Being a mountaineer is about training, skill, determination, resourcefullness and love of the mountains. We should respect the men on the mountain for that and not dishonor them with meaningless what-if's by those who don't understand who they are.

I don't know about seige style tactics for SAR. I have not seen that before. What PMR has done in the past is to send a team up to bivy and run a wand line out on either side of the bivy. That way people stumbling down might intercept the line and get let to the rescuers location. The bivy is usually at a choke point where a couple of decent routes might intercept.