carolyn

I was referred by chance,luck, and maybe even skill to a local theatre company putting on a production of K2. They are asking me to teach the lead actor to climb (ice), help them out with terminology and a realistic set. Its a pretty cool gig! Anyway, they want me to come up with a schedule to work with the actor and other odds and ends. They also want me to tell them my fee. Ive never worked in a theatre setting, yet I feel like an idiot because I have no clue what is reasonable. They are a non-profit. I want to make money off of this gig, yet I dont want to rip them off. Anyone out there with theatre or film experience? Anyone seen the play? Its based off the movie K2 (same author). The play and movie are far from the same, though.

Just some links to information about eating disorders (which includes more than anorexia) for anyone interested. Im not posting them with the intention to prove myself right or someone else wrong. Its soley for educational purposes - these are all reputable organizations. Now - I need to go pack for Canada! ANRED Eating Disorders Coalition ANAD

As someone who personally dealt with an eating disorder for over 20 and now work with women who struggle with an ed, I have to disagree with disregarding the influence of the media. It is by far not the only factor. You are correct that the influence of family, peers, personality, possibly biological factors all play a role in the development of an eating disorder. Media images feed the disorder. Looking at photos of skinny women serves as a motivation to continue on your quest of starvation. If these images dont contribute to the development, at the very least they contribute to the persistance to remain thin. Thin (at least portrayed in the media) = control, love from others, attention, acknowledgement, admiration, beauty, power....the list goes on. It would be great to not have those dealing with this problem not look at the media. Yet, how does one go about doing that without walking around the rest of their lives with their eyes closed? Its everywhere! Its like asking a newly recovered alcoholic to spend a certain amount of time each day in the bar surrounded by a bunch of drunk friends. Doesnt mean they will absolutely turn back to alcohol, but it sure doesnt help their odds. Tshav-I wish your friend and her daughter the best.

From what I have read this doesnt seem like a government mandate, more of a recommendation agreed upon between the government and a private company. This was obviously sparked by recent events in the fashion industry (as was mentioned). It sounds like your concern is the possibility of a hidden agenda within the government when implementing initiatives such as this. Yes? Thats a tough one for sure! I definately dont have an answer, but I sure can throw out some thoughts. As the population increases, a lot more damage seems to be done to our environment and health (body and mind). We are also much more advanced in technology and research, bringing about more awareness to subjects most hadnt often thought about before. Government and society in general wind up paying up the wazoo for what we now see as problems (global warming, eating disorders, drug addiction, smoking, cell phone usage in cars,lack of insured indiv, etc). Individuals obviously seem to have a difficult time making changes with these problems, thus government steps in. Because of the example you used and my familiarity with the subject, Im going to keep going with it. In my experience media seems to be one of the major factors contributing to eating disorders (and many other societal 'issues'). I mentioned choices, earlier. What kind of choice am I given when I ride the bus downtown and Im flashed with billboard after billboard of half-naked, anorexic women, looking glamorous next to a hot guy? Talk about mind control?!?!? Or newspaper ads, magazine ads, TV, store displays, etc? Its in your face constantly. There are only two ways to avoid it. Keep your eyes closed - always or have a high enough self-esteem to help you from doubting yourself. The second option might be a little more feasible. Yet, how do you raise someone with that kind of self-esteem when everything around them contridicts it? It was mentioned in another thread that issues like this should be taken up with the parents of a child. Yet, how many of us are parents, work with children, or have contact with them on a daily basis? Almost everyone! So, doesnt it then make it a societal issue? And to think these little people are the one's who will take care of us in our old age - whether they are our own or not. A lot of choices are taken away with other issues due to the media - advertising the next best gas guzzler, condemning those who dont believe in 'god', stating an MLU would absolutely saved a life, and so on.... We pretty much did this to ourselves. Media = selling something (idea or product)= money. So maybe its not even the medias fault. Maybe its the importance of money. The need for money stems from fear (lack of having what you need) and status (feeding the ego). Lets just get rid of money, have a free for all, then all our problems will be solved. Boy, did I digress! Im babbling. I dont have answers, obviously. I can definately offer some insight and education on eating disorders if that is of interest to anyone.

Boy, Lance. I understand that sometimes animals get put to sleep if they kill. I was bit by my neighbors dog when I was a kid, a dog who knew me well. It was a bad enough attack that the adults opted to put him to sleep. I felt HORRIBLE! Not to mention losing my best friend over it (it was her dog). How long have you had the dog? Could the dog be given to a home with no other pets? Maybe contact your local humane society and ask them for suggestions? or your vet? Im feel for you. Im really sorry you are going through this. Keep us posted on your decision.

UtOh!

aw, c'mon dru! Youre resourceful! Dont tell me you havent figured out which website this all came from? If you havent, I will post a link.

damn! That is really sad! Im sorry to hear about your cat. As someone who has an older cat and is beginning to come to terms with her not being here in the near future, I empathize with your loss. Hang in there!

This guy decided to have a little fit over his post being temporarily pulled for review - and my response to his post, expressing my concerns. It sounds like he also did the same on rc.com a while back (I dont look at that board often, so I never saw what happened). Sorry guys/gals, but any credibility I was beginning to consider toward his request due to our conversation here, with others, and thinking things through in my own head has been squashed.

tvash- addressing being appropriate or not - I struggle knowing that SOME young girls and even women look at a photo of a climber (just an example) half naked, then possibly believe that is how THEY have to look in order to be 'good'. Addressing my message in all of this - The hell if I know! Im just starting to sort all of this out myself and working on putting words to my thoughts (which Ive always struggled with anyway). Where is that fine line between freedom of expression and choice regarding ones body and having it be detrimental to SOME who are exposed to it? Part of that I believe has to do with building confidence and acceptance in oneself, as not to be influenced by others choices. When you have that, I suppose you are able to be less affected by the choices others make. TV-whats that?

I found this article while looking for the initial research on this particular topic. I havent read all of it, but thought it was interesting none the less. Its long. Gender Differences in Wayfinding Strategies

I just want to add... Thanks to those who are offering there thoughts. As with most value related topics, there is no definate answer. Only opinions based off of each individuals different experiences. I totally respect and appreciate that!

Very well put! I agree completely. Im not suggesting to deny who you. Im just putting out there of the possibility to honor both sides (masculine and feminine) of your being. An example might be how I always thought I had to be like the boys to climb with them and be taken seriously. Well, as time has gone by I have realized I can still be a girl. I like the color pink. Always have. Probably always will. So my ice tools are covered in pink skate board tape. Its not so much to make a statement. Rather, I LIKE them that way. They are more fun to look at. Years ago I would never done that because that would be too "girlie" and I might lose respect, climbing partners, etc. I've found it hasnt changed a thing. There are numerous other examples of honoring my femininity while participating in what might still be considered a male dominated activity. THere are really two topics going on here 1. Gender roles 2. Advertising images that focus on the body and may/may not be destructive. They do both meld together. Hey Minx- In no way do I want to imply that anyone who would model like this is stupid. In fact, they may be the smarter one to bank on such an opportunity.

I heard the jerky boys voices going back and forth in that dialogue! That is really a funny story...I mean sad! Hope you filled yer tummy.

tvash- modeling is usually used to sell a product, right? So, why make the persons body the focus rather than the product? Ive mentioned before, this doesnt only apply to females. Men get put in this position as well. And, from both my personal and professional experience, I see how damaging it can be when advertising or a job focuses more on the persons body than the product or necessary skill. The subliminal messages can be incredibly destructive. this isnt a man vs woman topic. In my mind it has more to do with personal values. Honoring both body and mind, as well as feminine and masculine in all humans is an important value to me. My intention is not to 'dictate' with the things I have said. It's more or less to explain why a request as the one above might not be appropriate. Someone mentioned earlier that there seems to be an attitude (not necessarily on here - generally in the world) of complacency and "thats just the way it is". That seemed to be a very truthful statement to me. I also think when a subject like this comes up, whether online or in person, there tends to be a lot of defensiveness. Its like women are complaining, always wanting more, blah, blah, blah. I think that is reasonable to an extent because a lot of changes have been made regarding gender equality (whatever that is). It probably feels like, "enough is enough already!". I totally get that. For the men who have kids and a wife - how often, when your child gets hurt do they come to you for the bandaid? OR, for those who might lead trips in the wilderness, who do the group members usually go to first? More often than not,I would guess they go to the "motherly figure". We have conditioned ourselves that women are the ones who are the caretakers. If I was a male, I would be somewhat disappointed to miss out on those interactions. Im sure there will be a day when men have had enough of always having to uphold the masculine stereotype. Heck, you already see that happening with dads staying home and mom going to work. I say, get after it and good for you! Dont get stuck in a role just because that is what society has always done. Of course, if thats the role you prefer, I see nothing wrong with that either. Sheeesh! I will try to stop. I appreciate the honest dialogue with some of you, even if we dont agree. *disclaimer-nothing of what I say is absolute for every situation and person. All of what i say is only a generalized opinion from my own research, experiences,and values.

foxy changed his mind! I have them and want to get rid of em! Whats the rage over the rages out there? Cobras dont fit my hands well. Heres the deal... I want to get a pair of quarks as a supplement to my fusions. I will sell the rages for the approximate retail cost of one quark. Included, lockdown leashes, and an adze (they both have hammers on them). They were used for about 2.5 seasons and sitting in my closet for the past 3-4 seasons. Picks are great, tools are fine. I did notice a tad of rust on the spikes, probly from the salt we get in some of our ice. More of a cosmetic error. While Im already piggybacking off this post.... Im looking to sell a pair of Patagonia Stretch Element gloves. Mens Medium, never used. AWESOME alpine and ice gloves. Im kinda pissed that they are Too big for my hands. Ive become pleased with the whitesmoke gloves, so Im ready to let go of them. Retail 100 bucks. Will sell for 80. Big ass (XL) Patagonia das parka (orange even). Used 3-4 seasons. Been sitting in my closet for about 2yrs now (no rust, however!) One patch. Havent thought about price yet. I do prefer to sell locally, but will consider sending out there if interested and trustworthy!

Was it 'The Descent'? I just watched that movie. Could not figure out why a caving expedition would bring ice tools. Thats the one! Funny, eh?

Either Im missing YOUR point. Or youre missing mine. Nothing wrong with your ficticious ad - as they are looking for SKILLS and ability to PERFORM the job. Now, had your ad required the person to go topless (to show your bulging muscles of course), have straight teeth, and a great smile, I might think its innappropriate. Why? Because there is less or no focus on SKILL to get the job done. I would think the person looking for the employee was more interested in the object than the work performed. I dont believe that is right whether male or female. Its not about working a job you like or dislike. Its not about being male or female. Its about doing a job that excentuates your skill rather than your body - OR focuses on both EQUALLY no matter who you are.

true dat! My initial reaction as I logged on to the particular site to sell some gear and check local ice conditions and saw this was....creepy. I suppose my title could have been a little less judgemental. What kind of reaction do you suppose it would have gotten had this been posted on cc.com?

Holy Shit! That looks like my cat - only a thousand pounds heavier! Maybe I should post it by her food bowl.

There was a recent movie out about a couple of women who went caving. There was a lot of funny stuff in that. It was so funny I had to stop watching it. sorry, I cant remember the name.

my first reaction was that I thought it was funny and kind of an odd thing to be posting. He seemed somewhat secretive about giving more information unless you contacted him. That isnt a great way to start out when asking a female to wear a bikini top or bra while being photographed (unless its craigslist or the xxxpersonals). My other issue with it - and yes, it may not be a popular one - is the way he worded his request. Why be so specific on what to wear and ask that it be so little? How does one take a photograph from the top of a climb with someone wearing a bra or bikini and not have it go beyond the "G" rating. At the very least, you know he is getting a good peep. Why cant the woman wear what she wants? Why does she have to have a "great" smile? Why cant she have a great look of determination instead? It's a shoulder/head shot. Why not photograph the entire person to show her strength and grace? His wording makes me belive he is more interested in finding a female to be advertised as an object rather than the entire being (both strong and feminine) that she is. Personally, as someone who works specifically with girls and women focusing on sports and body image, I find something like this innappropriate. Others dont have to agree with me. Thats fine. I would just ask that you be open to the idea that women are often portrayed more for their body, smile, and caretaking abilities, rather than everything that encompasses their being (feminine and masculine characteristics). On the flip side, men are also denied their feminine side (which does exist guys!) due to the stereotype that they have to be "strong"-both physically and emotionally. Go take a look at your climbing magazines. How many pictures show the men doing some heroic looking move, in the lead, making a face showing determination? How many women are shown holding the rope, behind the guy, dressed in clothing that is sweet and innocent, smiling, etc? Check out some kayaking photos as well. Not often do you see a woman with her paddle in the water. She is usually hanging out enjoying the atmosphere. The men almost always have the paddle in the water. Ive probably gone way overboard and moved a bit away from the orignal topic. I dont support his search and I have shared with him in an email the above sentiments.

No shit! Here is a link to his website link None of it is x-rated (I know,sorry guys! ). he sure does have a lot of pictures of little girls on the site. That makes me wonder after seeing his request. Then you throw in...

Do I even need to tell you what website this is from?