pope

Loren, I checked out your web-site, and from the looks of things, you're definitely in need of all the advice, help, beta and info you can find. I see where you're coming from, bro. I also see that you're into this NW legends thing...to the extent that you think you're partnered up with one! Now that's humor. p.s. Perhaps the quality of this site's information is even lousier than the humor? [This message has been edited by jkassidy (edited 05-23-2001).]

Hi Donna! Miss Buns, played by Susan Morgan, takes Miles Mellough's dog for a walk. Ben's daughter, George, is played by Brenda Venus. It is my opinion that these two brilliant film stars make this movie what it is. Brenda's site is BRENDAVENUS.COM, naturally. I checked it out this morning; her "pic of the day" makes me wonder why I spent so much time pursuing you! Man oh man! With the following hint, you may be able to answer question 5 without ever having viewed the Eiger Sanction: the number of the room in which "groundman" Ben Bowman stayed is divisible by the third power of the two smallest positive primes. The room is on the second floor.

Hemlock: Drop out, loser. I think you're flopping because you've got competition! Anyway, jkassidy was more or less correct and he leads by one. Oh, and uh, they're drinking Oly. But that ain't the question. I'll tell you what the questions are, buddy, pal, sweetheart. Question 5: Give the number of the hotel room in which Ben resides while acting as "groundman" for the Eiger climb.

SOMETHING LIKE "HEMLOCK: THE PROFESSOR WHO CLIMBS MOUNTAINS"? BTW, I HAD TO VIEW MY COPY THIS EVENING TO GET THIS ANSWER. KIND OF A DUMB QUESTION, NO?

Information is great, and I don't think somebody should spray all over a serious info exchange. But a topic like "BIG LOU JR" was pretty hilarious, and I don't think anybody mistook it for information. I get the impression "BIG LOU JR" was hidden from easy view because of rowdy banter!

I'm a neophyte on these boards, so maybe I shouldn't comment, but I will. So, here's my worthless-but-nevertheless-got-to-be-heard opinion: IT'S REALLY STUPID HOW A TOPIC GETS DEMOTED TO "SPRAY" STATUS AND, CONSEQUENTLY, HIDDEN FROM THOSE VIEWING THE TOP 25. I'LL START FOLLOWING HILARIOUS AND IMAGINATIVE BANTER AND....HEY, WHERE THE HELL DID IT GO? AFTER THE DEMOTION, IT SEEMS THE TOPIC DIES, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE. Let's face it, when you ensconce, behind the veil of "spray demotion", the clever, smart-alecky commentaries of contributors such as Donna Top-Step, your bulletin board becomes a collection of sapless, uninspiring, poorly formulated claptrap, written by imbeciles who are victims of the illusion that mountain climbing is serious and important.

You're right, Forrest, the statement is completely modular. For example, a small number of people used to ride mountain bikes on the trails of Pt. Defiance Municipal Park. Then some greedy guy opened a shop just outside the park, where, you guessed it, one could rent a moutain bike. All too soon, the increase in bike traffic caused the ornathologists and other strollers to object. Bikes are no longer allowed.

Bingo. We so far have a four-way (relax Donna, no Yak in this tent) tie, with one correct answer each from Hemlock, Chriss, Jkassidy, and Forrest_M. Question 5: Candice Rialson plays an art student who propositions Jonathan Hemlock, offering him her pleasure in exchange for a "B" grade. In the movie, we see her in Hemlock's lecture reading a magazine article. What is the title of the article?

Only if you have read the book will you be capable of answering question 4: Big Ben Bowman refers to an episode in which Jonathan rescued him off of a very big mountain, a mountain on which Bowman claims to have urinated in defiance. Name the mountain.

Charlie, Your story is full of strange inconsistencies which I can't seem to resolve. For example, if you had met Donna, you'd only agree that she's HOT HOT HOT! If you think she's a dog, why did you keep her panties? I saw Donna coming out of REI with a bag full of polypropylene nighties and sports bras, just days after you told Hemlock about the helmet rescue, and so I'm sure it is Donna's panties you're holding hostage. Nothing makes since, unless....OK, now it's coming together for me! Maybe you're wearing those panties, and maybe you think Donna's ugly because she's female. Hemlock told me you were driving around with some kind of fruity license plate frame....something about, "YES I AM"...until my revelation, I had not one clue what that meant! You tiger!

OK, pal, let's get down to the old nitty gritty! Question 3: Jonathan suggests that the patriotic whore, Jemima Brown, might pick up something from a bowl by the kitchen door, as he kicks her out. What should she pick up?

pope thats easy---David Knowles---how about some difficult questions for a change!!!!

Hey Hemlock! I knew you'd make it. Nice place here. Perhaps the only thing you've got more wired than this movie is your nonchalance. You're absolutely right: Yurassis Dragon (as in "your ass is dragin'"). Clever, huh? Question 2: Name the stunt double who was killed by Eiger stonefall during the making of this film.

Let's make this interesting. I'll run ten Eiger quiz questions, and whoever answers the most questions correctly will win an Eiger Sanction lobby card. In the event of a tie, I might have to do a shoot-out quiz. Hey Hemlock: You can play too!

Let's start easy, and if you demonstrate an understanding of the subject, we'll know you're ready for more advanced questions: C2's Search and Sanction Division is masterminded by a former Nazzi named Dragon. What is his first name?

Don't nobody want to talk about Big Lou? I guess nobody from the hot tub party is chattin' on these boards. Another episode in this brilliant book has been bothering me lately. This larger than life alpine super hero reveals a more vulnerable side to his personality when he speaks on the topic of fear. We learn that Big Lou uses fear as a survival instinct, and that he feels fear has kept him alive all of these years. He goes so far as to say that even Big Lou gets butterflies the first couple of days on a big wall. Big Lou gets big wall butterflies. Isn't that something? By the way, anybody out there ever seen Big Lou on a big wall, say, smashing a bashie or rigging a porta-ledge? I think we're all aware of his legendary ability to hump a big pack in the snow, but big wall butterflies? Big Lou on a big wall? If you know any details of Big Lou's big wall score card, let's hear about it!

OK, now for the rest of the story. NOBODY CRAPPED OUT ON THE GLACIER AT NIGHT on the '98 Cirque expedition. Bitter cold winds had forced us to set up a Chouinard Pyramid over the hole we were using as a latrine (two climbers actually suffered frost bite on their tallywackers before we made this move). One particular evening I visited this latrine tent five different times only to find DONNA TOP-STEP WITH TWO BRITISH CLIMBERS AND A YAK HAVING A FOUR-WAY IN THE LATRINE TENT. They must have been in there for six hours, and I had no choice but to attempt to crap in my own tent, using a Nalgene bottle to capture the turd. I missed the target because just as I was about to release the critter, I STEPPED ON THE RAZOR I HAD BEEN USING TO SHAVE DONNA'S BACK. Donna's story is, as you can see, thin on details, but otherwise factual except for the part about the sleeping bag: it was, of course, her bag. And that's why I think we should reconsider the practice of bolting our crags.

Tony, For a pitch like the one everybody seems to be discussing here, it is instructive to do some kind of benefit analysis. Before the bolts, the rock looked similar to the way it did 100 years ago...actually, similar to the way it did millions of years ago when erosion unveiled it. Before the bolts, the environment suffered little. A few bold climbers enjoyed the pitch as a comprehensive test of their leading abilities in the traditional style. This particular pitch also provided an enormous amount of enjoyment to those who recognized that their low skill level and the risky nature of the route dictated a top-rope. A guy like me...a guy like you, unable and/or unwilling to develop the skill and courage, could have PERFECT safety on that route. Bolts were not necessary for making the route safe and accessible. What bolts do give us is the chance to attempt a lead that we otherwise wouldn't be ready for. I can think of no other benefit, and I'm not sure this really is beneficial. But adding bolts certainly does permanently alter the environment....negatively. Bolts also deny highly skilled climbers the chance to test their traditional leading abilities, and bolts transform into a construction zone cliffs that have for decades been an escape from the city.

Donna, You may be a hot little package, but it's time we have an understanding: I am over you, the way you wish you were over me. And I know you left that bikini out by my hot tub just so that YOU KNOW WHO would find it. You're still bent out of shape 'cause I kicked you off the '98 Cirque Expedition, but your hot-blooded ways were creating too much intrigue around camp. What was I to do? Don't even preach to me about the classy way to treat a lady: you're not a lady, and you ain't classy. And hey, you may think that Canadian guy Dru treats you with respect, but I'm sure he's just trying to get you in the sack. Max: you could benefit from some freshman composition class at your local community college. They might teach you how to think on paper. And for those who think I'm way off the topic of this post, let me make the point I really sat down to write: bolts suck. The end. Bye bye.

Max, Donna says, "Hey guys(it seems you are all guys)....", because Donna is a girl, which makes her perspective at least a little unique. Duh. HEAD-POINT: is that Canadian for some kind of coming-out ritual? [This message has been edited by pope (edited 05-18-2001).]

Donna, How dare you patronize me you little bitch. Read the post and (after removing your foot from your pie hole) notice that I too DISAGREE with the notion that the first ascentionist has jurisdiction over future fixed protection additions. When many people gather the guts, skill and determination necessary for such a lead, they have established a standard for others to emulate and as such, they propel the route into part of the local tradition. When many climbers eschew bolts and respect a bold lead by top-roping, they too add to the tradition of respect and style. In no way does the first ascentionist have the right to ignore this tradition and grant permission for rock-damaging bolts. I'm quite capable of thinking for myself and from the quality of your analysis I might suggest that you allow me do the lion's share of your thinking too.

One of the guys who climbed it in its natural state was Dan Lepeska...he was likely first. According to the bolter, Dan was asked and he approved. But then you've apparently got other dudes who have climbed it and weren't asked. And countless people who top-roped it and left it as a testament to lunacy and skill or whatever. And they weren't asked. Actually, a survery was done but it sounded pretty exclusive..you had to be in a certain club so to speak. The bolter reported that only two people surveyed had a problem with it.

Hey Jens, I know the guy who bolted Dan's Not-So-Dreadful Direct. I promised not to disclose his name (his request). He's pretty sure the route has never been climbed without top-rope inspection and/or pre-placed gear, and this was one of his justifications for bolting it (along with a few other specious arguments). He watches these boards and I'd bet he'd like to know how you did it. Makes little difference to me, and I don't buy the argument that if nobody has flashed it in perfect style, then it deserves bolts. I'm sure it's a bold lead (used to be anyway) in just about any style. Hats off to you for being so audacious. p.s. I know how you did ROTC! Hey remember?

Peter, Watching a female sport climber lead the Edge climb was just an episode in my experience with the route. Truth is, I've never seen anybody else lead it. You may dig up that post and find, after a more careful reading, that I expressed my feelings of respect for her persistence. She took some enormous falls from the crux but her skillful belayer did not allow her to hit the ground. I've read numerous posts written by those in favor of rap bolting which accuse "trad" climbers of being macho and arrogant. Including a story in my post about a female sport climber's ascent of the Edge served the purpose of refuting the myth that only macho trad climbers are capable of enjoying that kind of challenge. Peter, I even spelled it out for you. That's twice now. You're convinced that I'm sexist, and a decade ago you'd have been right on the money. So, take away the gender of the clilmber in my example and what do you have? A sport climber enjoying the Edge's cerebral challenge, taking big falls, and no casualities (but for my poor rope). Peter, you're a smart guy, how might that have supported the premise of my post? OK, OK, OK, B.F.D. You agree that Vantage looks like shit. Guess what: many people think the place is just swell and they wouldn't even cough if Castle Rock went the same direction. Some people just don't think bolts are ugly, and you're not going to change their minds. The best you can do is get them to respect that at certain cliffs, bolts have been avoided because their use has been regarded as cowardly, as lowering the challenge to match low skill. Like it or not, that's always been the counterpart to aesthetics arguments. You can only hope that those who don't subscribe to these ideas will respect them at certain cliffs.

It's true that those opposed to retro-bolting aren't very diplomatic, but then they're not running for office. And if they're short on diplomacy, then your average retro-bolter is abysmally poor in the ability to logically present persuasive arguments. Why are we so eager to reduce the challenges offered by mountaineering? I thought challenge was one of the big reasons we go to the hills. Retro-bolters seem convinced that scary routes must be made safe with bolts, even when perfect safety is just a top-rope away. Another defense of retro-bolting is that it increases traffic, thereby rescuing routes from obscurity. I don't recall anybody lowering the hoop so that I could dunk a basketball; it's understood that not every athletic accomplishment is within the ability of every athlete. And yet we're willing to litter our cliffs with bolts to give ourselves the illusion that we can "lead" 5.11? The routes discussed above have always been accessible by top-rope, but I guess you just don't get the same ego stroke on a top-rope. What is arrogance if not the willingness to say, "My desire to bolt and then 'lead' this route is more important than the wishes of those who don't want the cliffs to look like a construction zone."