pope
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Posts posted by pope
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Pencil Inthebutt,
You mean the Confessional is a joke? You're a bright one, aren't you? Cheating makes you a better cheater. Aiding (in all of its shades) makes you a better aider. I can't tell you how many times I've been leading out above gear, looking a certain doom if I blow it, and suddenly come to the realization that if I had to stop and hang for a quick hair comb, I'd be screwed.
Pencil boy, for a guy who's certain that his climbing style is valid, for a guy who thinks that anybody committed to climbing in good style at lower grades is a cigar smoking snob, you sure check into Confessional on a regular basis. You might be closer to a Conversion than you realize.
Go and bolt no more.
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Shove a six-pack of Oly in his Rucksack, then jumar up his rope while he's trying to lead a free pitch. When you get to the top, ask if he wants a beer. Then, after he gives you this look like, "You gonna call room service?"....then pull the Oly out of his pack and endure his bitching about warm beer.
I saw this in a movie.
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Whoa...Now slow down there, sonny. I didn't SAY that Pope was thinking thoughts about Katie....She seems like a perfectly nice girl, and I think she's got some of these boys beat at their own game. By the way, hemp rope ain't for smoking or making chic little wallets, you know. When I let it slide over the leather patch on the bum of my woolies, it makes for a soft belay. You whipper snappers with your Kernmantle ropes could learn a few things from the old Popester.
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It ain't free 'til it's free. Call it what it is: resting, taking, tension, getting spanked, whatever....it's all aid. I personally don't see anything WRONG with aid, until you call it "free". But that's just the way I choose to play.
I don't agree that aid climbing makes you a better free climber. All of the aids mentioned above make you more relaxed perhaps, more willing to rely on your gear, but I don't think they make you or anybody else a better free climber. And don't quote me some French athlete who swares cheating made him better. Those guys are good because they're superior athletes playing this game full time. They're good at climbing at their limit without worrying about falls...but that's because they've littered their rock with so much engineering, big falls aren't risky. If you were to climb in this style on thin pro, or in the hills, you'd be killed.
The occasional fall, or resting when you just know you've had it, isn't WRONG...it's a sign that you're at your control limit, and so a couple of falls a year is within reason for me. After that I'd prefer to have aiders....they make aid climbing so much easier.
p.s. This is a tedious conversation. Let's talk about Katie Brown for a change. Any of you guys letting your imagination get you in trouble?
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 06-18-2001).]
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Pencil Neck,
We agree...when you climb a mountain or a wall, you've got two goals: get home alive, and summit without beating up the rock. My preference for cragging (and this is the genre the Confessional tends to address) is to climb at a grade I can handle, rarely falling, rarely hanging to comb hair/mime, and never rehearsing. If somebody else finds these activities enjoyable, or if they prefer to define "free" climbing to include these tactics, then they probably don't feel any guilt or confusion, and we won't hear from them in Confessional. Right? And if Pope doesn't hear from them, then he doesn't even know they exist, and so how can he possibly care how they live their lives? He can't. Again, this is a service for those who understand that free climbing is one thing, and everything else is aid, but who have behaved shamefully and who live dishonestly in the pursuit of "redpoints" at a grade they can't really handle. If Confessional isn't for you, if you're pretty sure you're living your life with dignity and pride, then nobody is beating your door down to come to church.
Confessional is a service for those who are ready. I'm not recruiting or evangelizing. I couldn't care less how people climb or how they report their conquests. Bolting and chipping? You're right, that's where I feel obligated to say and do something in protest. That sort of "climbing" is everybody's business.
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Nice. I'll have to try these variations next time I hike up to one of my vary favorite routes.
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What we're dealing with here is integrity and respect, with people who are saying, "'Bout time I got some in my life." Of course, if you go up to Midnight Rock or a similar tradsters' hang, you'll see some goofy yo-yo stuff going on, people hanging on gear and such. That's not the point. The question is, can you climb like that weekend after weekend and convince yourself that you really climb at that grade, or do you at some point finally admit to yourself that all of that clip-hang-mime-comb hair-struggle-repeat horsecrap is a sign that you're over your head? In the pursuit of bigger numbers, we're willing to compromise style in every conceivable way, then head to the bar and talk about how we spent the day "free" climbing when, more acurately, we were just bouldering between aid moves.
Again, you enter the confessional with a guilty conscience, expecting to get help, and Pope advises you to climb in better style and be kind to the rock. You'll be happier, and the rock will be prettier for generations, and our cliffs will continue to offer challenges to bold climbers, and fun to top-ropers (when it comes to difficult face, that's how I spend my time these days). If you don't feel guilty for beating up the rock, if you don't feel guilty about aid climbing and calling it "free" climbing, then I won't be able to help.
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Here's an old idea that I think still has validity. Many harnesses cost mucho bucks, and if you scrutinize the structure of the harness, padding notwithstanding, the strength of the harness depends on a buckle and one strap that weaves its way through the buckle, plus whatever strength the leg loops add (which must be significant). If the buckle goes, or if the single loop of webbing attached to the buckle fails, you've got a problem. But with the cost of such harnesses, I'll bet people don't replace them nearly as frequently as a sling, even though we modern climbers subject our harnesses to all kinds of abuse (falls, abrasion in chimneys, hours and hours of ultraviolet radiation).
My solution: for about five bucks, purchase enough 2-inch tubular webbing to go around your tummy twice and tie a water knot, with extra long tails (6 or 8 inches). Then purchase commercial leg loops (I've got some kind of Black Diamond jobbers) and hold it together with an over-sized locker. Then tie your chalk bag with a 1-inch tubular webbing strap, finished with an adjustable knot (bowline), and when you tie in with the rope, be sure to catch your 2-inch "swammi", your leg loops and your chalk-bag strap.
A cheap, strong system with redundancy. Cheap enough that the spine of this system (2-inch swammi) can be replaced annually. Stronger than anything sold (I'm no engineer, but this ain't rocket science). Also convenient for staying tied in at night, or for when you have to get out Mr. Jimmy to reward the party below you with a golden shower.
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 06-17-2001).]
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DWAYNER: I'm sorry to hear you're beatnikin' it on the Continent with that little tramp Donna. Of course she's hot when you see the world each day through the bottom of a shot glass. Hell, she's hot to the average sober guy. I suppose you couldn't wait to tell me that Donna had been blowing your whistle. But I don't feel any jealousy or envy upon hearing this news...trust me, you won't need me to suggest penance by the time you've spent a couple of weeks with her. And when you're ready to be rid of her, that's when the fun starts, pal. I'm still finding little surprises around my place that Donna had left for my wife to find....a book of Motel 6 matches, a gallon of cherry-flavored body paint, a receipt for a "friendly weapon" from that Costco-sized adult toy store. I'm telling you man, get out while you can, 'cause when you kick her to the curb (the way I did on that Cirque Exp.), she'll keep bouncing back up in your face. Oh well, maybe this will take some heat off me for a while.
BTW, while you're over there, are you by chance planning to add sit-starts to any of the Alps' classics?
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Then your only sin is believing that ANYBODY cares how you climb. Guess what....I don't care. Furthermore, I DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU CARE HOW YOU CLIMB. If you're capable of pulling on gear and clipping chicken bolts, then getting a good night's sleep after the fact, if you feel no guilt for climbing like a Frenchy, then I'd say you've lost your pride and Pope probably can't help. This confessional is for people who are AWARE of the hypocrisy of their sport-doggin' ways, for those who KNOW it's wrong to beat up on the rock and lust after Katie Brown....but who also have a little pride left, enough to know they can't handle the shame of being a bolt-clippin' sport monkey.
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CHARLIE: So how is your little CURRY VILLAGE SWEETY? Hemlock gave me a rather detailed description of her...uh, dimension, and I must say that such evaluations were conspicuously absent from your previous discussions. Based on Hemlock's account, I can understand why you didn't pursue a bivouac with her...what if she rolled over in the night? The prospect makes the Hollow Flake look relatively inviting, and infinitely less dangerous.
Anyway, glad to hear you had a safe and rewarding trip. Hemlock and I had a little adventure...he'll tell you about it. BTW, know where he is today?
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Most people I know who can honestly handle 5.11 climbs.....don't go around advertising the fact. On the other hand, most climbers I know who do a 5.11 in the Gym or at Exit 38 (OK, same thing, I know).....can't wait to tell you about it.
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THREEWAY PEAK: Donna Top-Step might be interested in an expedition to climb this one.
NOBLE KNOB: Reminds me of a tasteless joke about rulers and inches.
BUFFALO HUMP: According to FB, this one was named by the Boyscouts. What are they teaching the kids in Scouts these days?
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Mountaineer Intermediate Course students are REQUIRED to lead and instruct Basic Course students......an obligation to pay back the Mountaineers "community". A nice idea, but the problem is that one year after graduating from the Basic Course, you might be an Intermediate Course student leading one of these Basic Course climbs. That you found some of these guys to be incompetent is not surprising: some have no business teaching and leading climbs. On the other hand, you didn't pay for a professional guide. You were simply part of a BIG program which mass-produces graduates from its courses, and for the cost to you the student, you're getting a pretty good deal. But it's not the best or safest way to learn, just as public education isn't the best way for the individual child to learn.
I did meet some instructors in the Mountaineers who knew their stuff...some guided through RMI, some climbed rock confidently, some had been to Alasksa a couple of times. And the Mountaineers'Basic Course Curriculum, while a little thin on rock work, is designed to give the student an excellent start in acquiring the knowledge and skills to get up some snowy Cascade peaks. I'm amazed at the number of climbers I meet who lack these basic skills (map and compass work, ice axe arrest, roped travel on glaciers and snow slopes, hip belays and tying in without a harness). Anyway, you can get a lot out of the Basic Course, but it's like community college: you can pass knowing almost nothing, or you can be a serious student and learn an amazing amount.
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 06-14-2001).]
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This thread may be too new for trying to formulate generalizations, but based on the observations of these (see above) widely experienced and highly regarded climbers, may we conclude that, generally speaking, climbers have partitioned themselves into two camps, sport dogs and rock jocks, the members of which tend to climb geomorphic features (grottos and spires) that reflect their own genitalia?
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You boys have got it all wrong. When you're backstepping up some steep pocket pull, you want to have lost every superfluous ounce on your body. It's all about going light, so my diet consists of nothing but rice cakes and nonfat powdered milk. When I've been extra good about eating light and faithful to my fitness program, I always reward myself with roasted cucumber seeds (no oil for this knee dropper). At a social function, say at my partner's (that's climbing partner buddy!) house-warming party, I'll go for broke and throw extra celery sticks in my salad!
Other tips for shaving ounces, prior to the big pink point effort: limit yourself two only five diamond studs per ear and only two nose rings. Also, go ahead and paint your toe nails, but compensate by losing the speedos under your lycra. Finally, and I got this idea from Chrisian G., spend an hour in the tub SHAVING EVERYTHING YOU CAN REACH!
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Like Big Lou says, if she's kind enough to "speak into the microphone", don't go spreading her name around town. Anyway, she was the kind of girl who had no future in rock climbing: due to visual obstructions, she had terrible footwork!
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I met a partner on Mt. Si. She fellated me on Liberty Bell. So, I'm all for this sort of thing.
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A wheat bagel has got the protein/fat content of a power bar. Add a multiday vitamin and you've basically got the same thing. But my favorite menu for mountaineering is simple: eat like the old masters, like Welzenbach, like Rubberfat, etc. Whip an "alpine snack platter" with salami, cheese and heavy bread. It'll kick your ass.
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I must confess that I'm unfamiliar with this 5.6 route, and consequently I can only speculate. Back in the day, climbs followed the weakest line in a given area of a cliff, so there was no skirting around to drop in for a clip. The crux, back in those days, was by far the easiest way up, relative to the surrounding rock.
I wouldn't blame myself too much if I were in your shoes. Again, I'm just speculating, but it sounds like some bolt-happy clip-monkey shoved some bolts into crappy rock, and didn't know how to rate the crux, etc. If I'm wrong, or if the F.A. was done by some big bruiser like Dwayner, then I stand to get my ass kicked. Yet I've seen a lot of this kind of thing, ever since drilling bolts on rappel became an acceptable way of establishing new climbs. Since any fool can put in a route like that, you're going to see a bunch of crappy routes on substandard rock, with very unrealistic ratings for difficulty and quality, and there's an excellent chance that in L-Worth, the route will come highly recommended by a certain authority. But again, I'm not familiar with this route.
Chances are, YOU WERE MORE VICTIM THAN VILLAIN.
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Yeah, have them tie together, exchange pitons or whatever, and then she could short-rope him around the reception because that's just what will happen when you hook up with a girl. Happened to me I don't know how many times....and have her wear big-wall painter pants, and maybe he could show up for the party wearing a lycra skirt 'cause I think we know who's going to wear the pants after the honeymoon, right?
But seriously, I think it would be really charming if "Imer" and his bride had to climb up on some boulder, with all of the wedding party there for a spot. And while you're at it, why not look into bringing out the Bandaloop Dance Troop for some thematic entertainment. They're really quite fun to watch, and so dedicated to their art. I was an alternatre to make the team in 1998, but I was told I needed a little more jazz dance in my background before I could count on making the team.
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I've seen a wedding party where each member wore plastic boots..looked kind of silly up there, 'specially the bride. I think Lynn Hill got married on the side of a cliff. Just food for thought...Iambone, you only get to do this once, so make it an event your climbin' buddies will not forget!
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Please....no more bolts in the Pope. The anchor on top of my schlanger causes me too much pain as it is (as does the snow patch). Mr. Slappy: you're either trying to be funny or you're really sick....you've got me guessing!
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In case you haven't read, IAMBONE IS GETTING MARRIED (I've already bid on his cams). Climbers are the most interesting people, and so it's no surpise when you go to a climber's wedding that things are a little out of the ordinary. Back before Donna and I became involved, we were good friends and climbing partners. When I announced my engagement, she insisted on helping to plan our little celebration, and it was just too crazy. We came swinging in on ropes, unclipped, and when the ceremony was about to conclude, we tied into the same piece of perlon whilst the audience yelled, "On Belay!" Our reception tables had little ice axes for serving cake and summit registers for signing in guests. We even had a cake shaped like the Matterhorn.
I'll bet you guys have seem some crazy stuff...got any ideas to add to Imabone's wedding planner?
Big Lou Jr.
in Spray
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Well, look what I found! Looks like you, Dwayner, were all over that action, and you hadn't even seen the pictures when you posted this one. Now you are trying to convince me that you're in Spain while Donna is up in Wales climbing with some rat-faced Limey? I really don't care if she's "playing your horn", just don't expect me to believe you and Donna are bivouacing anywhere but your hotel room, partner. You can't hide your attraction to Donna any better than you can hide your pathetic addiction. Is it respect you intend to show Donna, or is it Big Lou Jr.?
[This message has been edited by pope (edited 06-18-2001).]