How do you avoid tangles on double-rope raps?

[worldbfree]

A friend & I climbed Infinite Bliss last weekend, which meant hours of double-rope rapping back to the base. I'd say 85% of the time the ropes got severely tangled somewhere along the way (I mean each individual rope getting tangled in itself, not the 2 ropes tangling together - although that happened too). Is this just a fact of life when it comes to double-rope raps? I don't have this problem with single ropes.

 

Our method was to split up each rope into two separate coils, then throw the coils within a second or two of each other. Inevitably the rope ended tied up like a bird's nest, usually toward the bottom of the rap. Untangling the ropes probably cost us an hour total.

 

Anybody have any techniques or suggestions to avoid this?

[pink]

a) climb steeper stuff

b) rap with your lines

[catbirdseat]

Did you throw the middle coil first? Did you coil the rope or butterfly it?

[Clarence]

Maybe wait a little longer between tossing your butterfly coils.

 

[eldiente]

On that route there is almost no way to keep tangles from happening if your throwing your lines down. Try walking the ropes done instead of tossing them. I like putting a coil on my lap and feed it out while rapping. To make it even easier, simul rap so that each person only has to walk/feed one rope on the way down. Yes, having to feed a rope while your on rappel is slow, but so is untangling lines when you toss the rope and it only goes 3 feet with every toss.

 

 

 

 

 

[northvanclimber]

simul rap so that each person only has to walk/feed one rope on the way down.

 

careful if you do this with half ropes (or really thin singles) because they're so thin. some belay devices won't provide enough friction (although you can remedy this by adding carabiners, etc.). did this once without really thinking about it and discovered it was a good thing i was wearing gloves...

[worldbfree]

each rope was in two hand coils, throwing middle coil first.

 

never tried feeding out the rope while rapping, but it sounds like it might be a good option on lower-angle routes.

[eldiente]

Yes, this is true. On my skinny cords I can really only simul rap on low angle slabs, IE Infinite Bliss. On steep terrain I don't bother with the simul rap as going down a steep route is plenty fast one person at a time.

 

 

simul rap so that each person only has to walk/feed one rope on the way down.

 

careful if you do this with half ropes (or really thin singles) because they're so thin. some belay devices won't provide enough friction (although you can remedy this by adding carabiners, etc.). did this once without really thinking about it and discovered it was a good thing i was wearing gloves...