Input needed: older Charlet Moser ice tool picks

[Chad_A]

I have a set of Axars; went up with a pal to the Eliot to do some ice craggin'. He's a good climber, but on top of that, my tools kept blowing out, or took 3-4 hits to get the pick to stick, or both. Following him up some vertical bits (and occasional bulges of overhangs) proved to be difficult. I should add that he watched me swing, and said that it wasn't my problem. Also, my pinky is right at the "nub" at the end of the grip, so I'm pretty sure I'm not gripping too high.

 

I've seen the 4x4 picks, and the "Upgrade" that they make (or made) for the Axar. I had the originals on them that had been filed by a previous owner (I think these are called the Cascade pick); my pal took a look at them, and said that the shape was inefficient, and would be hard to get them back to where they need to be.

 

So, I just put Upgrades on them, and before I change anything, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with these. The guy at the shop said that the pick was so thin (3mm), and the teeth were so small, that he'd be apprehensive to bevel the teeth at all. I'd also like to bevel the upper cutting edge some more, but again, there's not much metal there, so I'm apprehensive.

 

If anyone has come up with a preference for this pick, let me know. I'd like to spend my time climbing on them, not lowering of and filing, or climbing any worse than I already do. Or, simply post a picture of your filed pick. Thanks in advance.

 

---Chad

[fishstick]

I've used the original, the upgrades and 4X4s in axars.

 

There were actually several "originals" with I believe the early units (pre-drytooling popularity) having less volume and higher performance than the final offerings.

 

Regardless, the upgrades work GREAT without touching them with a file. I intially thought they'd be too fragile and lack confidence inspiring bite, so went with 4X4s instead. Several routes in the CDN rockies with picks bouncing all over the place got me pondering upgrades. Upgrades were a huge improvement over not only the 4X4s, but the originals as well. I agree that there isn't enough volume there to tune them with a file. There also isn't a need.

 

Generally on firm to hard serac ice (especially in Sept) I'd expect single to perhaps double swing placements. 95% singles with upgrades. On really hard, really steep late season ice it might take 5 or 10 swings to get a good stick.

 

It might be worth checking REI for more upgrade picks. They were dumping them in CO for $10.00 each earlier this year.

 

For bullet hard ice, I would also recommend adding Charlet weight kits. They do three things: add punch, provide a placement that offers better feedback, and finally - they hold the pick in tighter. Some axar/quasars have a pick shift problem (the blade moves up and down about 5mm under a load); the weight kits tighten up the head in manner that eliminates this.

 

As for tools blowing out, it could be picks that were over-filed, or it could be technique. Problems on sub 90 degree serac ice is odd. Apply power:)

 

GB

Edited September 22, 2005 by fishstick

[Fromage]

Good choice with the Upgrades. I put one of those on a Pulsar of mine and found it climbed really well. The pick lacks the curvature teeth up near the shaft that later model Cascade picks had, but hooking is not what Pulsars do best so I found it made little difference.

 

I was very conservative in altering my Upgrade. I only filed a small bevel on the first few teeth behind the pick and left the tip alone. I didn't bevel them the way the new Quark Cascade pick teeth are sharpened to a point like a triangle; I beveled parallel to the edge of the teeth, so the teeth sharpened towards a ridge (although I did not bring the two sides of the "ridge" together- that would make the teeth too fragile). This minor modification increased the bite of what was already a sticky pick. I had no problems removing my placements with the top edge of the pick in an unaltered state.

 

In general my advice would be to make changes in very small increments. File a little, climb a little, repeat if necessary. It is easier to take more metal off than it is to put it back on. Good luck!

[Chad_A]

Good input! Thanks much.

 

So, from what I'm getting, the Cascade pick is actually a newer style pick?

 

And, also so I understand, the teeth are beveled just a tad, so they don't come to a point, but instead are still flat on top?

 

Good to hear I'm not the only one still climbing without a Cobra or a Quark (although Cobras are mighty sexy).

 

Cheers-

[Chad_A]

I've used the original, the upgrades and 4X4s in axars.

 

There were actually several "originals" with I believe the early units (pre-drytooling popularity) having less volume and higher performance than the final offerings.

 

Regardless, the upgrades work GREAT without touching them with a file. I intially thought they'd be too fragile and lack confidence inspiring bite, so went with 4X4s instead. Several routes in the CDN rockies with picks bouncing all over the place got me pondering upgrades. Upgrades were a huge improvement over not only the 4X4s, but the originals as well. I agree that there isn't enough volume there to tune them with a file. There also isn't a need.

 

Generally on firm to hard serac ice (especially in Sept) I'd expect single to perhaps double swing placements. 95% singles with upgrades. On really hard, really steep late season ice it might take 5 or 10 swings to get a good stick.

 

It might be worth checking REI for more upgrade picks. They were dumping them in CO for $10.00 each earlier this year.

 

For bullet hard ice, I would also recommend adding Charlet weight kits. They do three things: add punch, provide a placement that offers better feedback, and finally - they hold the pick in tighter. Some axar/quasars have a pick shift problem (the blade moves up and down about 5mm under a load); the weight kits tighten up the head in manner that eliminates this.

 

As for tools blowing out, it could be picks that were over-filed, or it could be technique. Problems on sub 90 degree serac ice is odd. Apply power:)

 

GB

 

Funny- I almost missed your post! Windows is being weird; it automatically forwarded me to Fromage's post.

 

I'm glad you spoke up, as well. It's nice to get useful input on this; it's much easier to get an idea of this in front of my PC, then sitting on a glacier with a file, frustrated, and potentially doing more harm than good.

 

I'm fully aware that it still could be my technique, and these problems could be my fault, in particular. I tried applying more power, but it seemed that the ice would fracture, or dinner plate more. By the time I hit the ice the fourth time, which became tiring to say the least, a crater in the ice existed. Would make it easy to place a screw in that spot, but doesn't do much good for getting in a good tool placement!

 

Might try the weight add-ons. Ideas as to where to get them now? Thanks again!

 

---Chad