Marc

I think most of us agree that the gate of the lower biner should face away from the direction of the climber's travel, i.e., if I am ascending up and left, the gate of the lower biner should face to the right. The worry I have is when I must traverse first one way and then the other in difficult terrain before making the next clip, thus not knowing for sure on which side of the lower biner I might fall. The other consideration is the top biner unclipping from the hanger as illustrated on the Climerware website. Most of the time this is not a big deal, and on most routes I don't give my clips a second thought after I decide which way to orient them. But most of us have been in situations where the rope must stay clipped or the results would be grim. My solution to this is to simply use two quickdraws, gates opposed. On the hanger end one carabiner points left and one to the right. Ditto for the rope end biners. I have seen no data to indicate this is a dangerous practice. The one concern I have would be extra stresses to the hanger-end biners, but they seem to nest pretty well. Anyway, that's my $.02

Has anyone used one of these yet? How about ease of use for belaying the leader?

Iain: First of all, I apologize for insulting you. I felt defensive about how our group worked on Robert. I was wrong to vent on you and I'm very sorry. I have also been taught that CPR is not employed on trauma victims very often. My wife, who works in medicine and was about the third person at the scene, told me yesterday morning that it was apparent to her that the victim was dead, but she didn't want to be the one to say that CPR would be useless. So all of us worked on him for 40 minutes, with body fluids all over everything, and no protection. I do not think anyone there gave it a second thought. Someone on this thread stated that they will carry PPE with climbing packs; I'm sure that is a good idea. However, emergencies happen anywhere - do you carry PPE with you wherever you go? I'm certainly not going to do that. I once drove by a burning vehicle with person(s) clearly inside (rescue personnel were present). Because of that, I now carry a large pry bar and fire extinguisher in all my vehicles. But I don't carry the PPE because I honestly don't think, in the confusion and rush to do something, that I would remember to use it. I sure, Iain, if you ever come across someone in need -and I hope you don't - that you will do the right thing.

Iain: I think your attitude here is is naive and wrongheaded. If you are really concerned about contracting a disease, then you should bring gloves and a breathing barrier with you whenever engaged in risky activity, namely, living life. Here is another anecdote for you: about 10 years ago I and another individual performed CPR on an 81 year old man for 20 minutes. When we began, his face was nearly the color of a Concord grape. He lived. We didn't get sick.

The victim did not fall from the Sunshine Wall. He was not climbing Chossmaster. He fell from a route directly above the 5.6 route on The Hen House. Above The Hen House are some obscure trad routes put up by Bill Robins, et. al,. In any event, they are located approx. 5 to 10 columns to the right (East) of the popular route "Canadian Hand Job". The columns in this area are maybe 50' high. It is unlikely that he could have fallen off the Red Hot Chili Peppers anchors and bounced far east enough to come down where he did.

My wife and I were climbing in the Millenium Wall area and saw the victim cartwheel to the ground below the 5.6 route on The Hen House. Without going into detail, it was a savage, hideous fall. We arrived at the victim (we got a first name of Robert) after approx. 5 other climbers were on the scene. A climber/medic, myself and my wife, and other climbers performed CPR on the severly traumatized and broken body of a male climber in his mid-30s to 40's for a full fourty minutes, timed by a watch. At no time did we detect a pulse. His injuries were extensive including probably broken femur(s) and knees, broken neck, ribs and untold internal injuries. He had a 5 cm square of exposed skull above the right eye. Margareta and I had a long discussion this morning about the groups unverbalized decision to continue CPR on a victim that was so far gone. Perhaps every one of the climbers there silently felt as we did that maybe we should have just said a few words and let him go on in peace. But no one wants to be the one say "enough" when maybe, just maybe, there is a 1 in 1000-odd chance of the person coming back. We heard from the victim's partner that he rapped off the end of his rope. However, I found ONE STRAND of rope running through his ATC. So probably he, or his partner, failed to equalize the ends of the rope, and thus one end of the rope fed through the ATC before he had reached the ledge. This squares with talk we heard, that ..."he was hanging on to one end of the rope screaming, then let go". I don't mean to point a finger at anyone. Let us all remember that most accidents happen on the rappel and keep ourselves from becoming complacent. My sincere condolences to the family and friends of Robert.

Almost new Black Diamond Skyhoy telemark bindings for sale. Used for about 4 hours only. In perfect shape with a few superficial scratches. One size fits all boots. New $330.00; yours for $250.00 or best offer. [This message has been edited by Marc (edited 02-02-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by Jeff: Does any know who to contact, or where the new routes are recorded, for Icicle Canyon? Jeff: Try contacting the quidebook author Viktor Kramer. He resides in Leavenworth and is listed in the phone book.

This is North Face's scaled down version of the VE series, with 4 hoops in the main tent plus an additional hoop on one end of the fly, forming a small vestibule. Tent is cozy for two, unless you're over 6'4" like me. If you need a totally bomber shelter that can snuggle onto small ledges, this might be for you. It's only seen about 12 nights, plus a few car camps at the City of Rocks. Except for a few dirt smudges, it looks brand new. I don't remember the new price, but REI didn't give it away. $275/Offer [This message has been edited by Marc (edited 11-02-2000).] [This message has been edited by Marc (edited 11-22-2000).]