MMclimbhigh

Nice work! Agreed, the desert holds it's own against the alpine. Love 'em both Cheers

I'm not sure where I'm going with this? My intention wasn't to get people fired up and angry. I'm simply looking at getting a positive/productive conversation going about the overcrowded campground situation. Banning camping altogether is not the solution! Vantage is one of the few precious places where one can set up camp, climb till their tendons and rock shoes blow out, and never have to move their car. It is truly special. I don't like regulation either, but I'd certainly pay a few bucks to spend the night in a quiet, clean campground. Over my 15 years of climbing there, I can remember so many peaceful, beautiful nights with coyotes walking right through camp. Now, a smart coyote, wouldn't come within a mile of the place. Unless, of course, they love the sound of car doors slamming all hours of the night and day! .......what to do? I'm afraid that opening up more camping lower down in Echo Coulee would just create more damage and destruction. I know that the Fish and Wildlife folks don't have enough money or resources to enforce the area. I know that it would take a substantial amount of money and effort to create a campground. I know that Vantage isn't overcrowded the whole year........ I like the idea of a clean up party/more signage approach. What were to happen if we barricade off some of the rouge campsites? There used to be about 15-20 good, usable campsites. Now there can easily be 60 or more cars/camps in the area. How 'bout we build a bigger parking lot and make it a walk-in only camp area? Long story short.......It hurts me to see the damage that we've created. Myself included. Frenchman Coulee needs our help and I'd love to do what I can to return it to a cleaner, natural and more sustainable environment. Sorry if I've offended anyone. Peace, MM

Thank you ilookeddown: This is the response that I'm looking for. Yes, I love Vantage. I love climbing there. I've climbed well over 200 routes and absolutely love the setting. I'm not worried about the climbing crowd, there are always places to escape the crowds, i.e. Middle East Wall. I'm also very grateful for the WCC and their efforts. The bathroom is wonderful gift. My concern is the camping situation. People are squeezed in tight and it's uncomfortable. With so many city folks and those new to climbing, the environment is getting trashed. Folks just wander around wherever they want and don't think of the damage they are creating. And what's up with the "need" to have a campfire? There has to be 45 fire rings or more in the area! Some fire rings are only 15' apart! I think we need an established campground with designated sites. Yes, it would be a bummer to have to pay, but the Steppe environment would thank us! Imagine how peaceful and beautiful it would be to have Hidden Valley (JTree) type campground? Limit your stay to 14 days, flat tent sites, fire pits, picnic tables...... Let's do our part to save this amazing playground!

We were all there......... We loved Vantage. But, were disheartened to see folks, every morning, sneaking off behind the sage to conduct the morning business meeting. Those of us who really cared, used the tried-and-true blue bag method. Others simply used the really-bad-plan of covering up their waste with a rock. Our dogs would find said rock and push it aside to have a mid day snack. Mmmmm...... We pushed hard for a bathroom, raised some money, jumped through the necessary hoops and celebrated our success. But, the unforeseen has happened! Along with the nice, sanitary new restroom comes an entirely new set of problems. Chief complaint.........ridiculously insane overcrowding!!!! Just because there is a place to take a shit in the morning, certainly doesn't mean that you can bring your entire family, neighbors and their families, friends on FaceBook, the stranger at the store, the weirdo at the rest stop and every other freakin' human being along with you to go 'climbing' at this great little place called Vantage! We've all dealt with the random crowds at the Coulee, but seriously folks, this is getting WAY out of hand. The place is simply being loved to death. There are idiots and their kids camping in every square inch of property to the South side of the Feathers. Hipsters, kids, dogs, gym climbers, college students, kids, wankers and wannabes busting the crust in every conceivable direction! What would normally only happen during a DMB concert at the gorge, now looks your everyday standard weekend at Frenchmans. The place is just disgustingly overcrowded. I've personally vowed to never return on a weekend. Although, I've recently been told, that the place was that crowded on a Tuesday in February. Full parking lots upper and lower. Crazy We now need to start talking/thinking about regulating the camping at this magical place. The environment simply can't sustain that amount of humans. Maybe whittle down the number of campsites? Maybe charge for camping? Maybe open up some more camping in Echo Coulee? Maybe chop all the bolts and create a trad only area!? Whatever the solution may be, we need to figure something out. The crowds are destructive, dangerous and seriously annoying. OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. But seriously folks, let's explore some ideas to help protect this fragile, beautiful environment! Long live Vantage!! Peace, MM

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