kjlfaiejlifli

Nope. Aside from a few of their efforts (puppy mills, animal testing, and general dog abuse), I don't really support PETA. I also didn't post to their board because they aren't bringing dogs up on mountains in dangerous and potentially hypothermic weather. I don't object to climbing with a dog in good weather, but doing it in snow is ridiculously stupid and dangerous.

First, thanks to all the rescuers helping in the effort. Second, no second guessing as to why these climbers are out there. I respect their desire and right to do so in whatever conditions they feel capable of doing it in. However, I know I will get reamed for this but, I don't respect anyone's decision to bring a dog up there. WTF? That dog isn't trained to climb. That dog can't guage a ledge. That dog didn't make a choice to go up a mountain in these conditions. I'm an animal lover and freak out in the az summer when dog owners don't see fit to supply their overly panting dogs water when walking them in 100 degree weather. I pray, more than anything, that dog makes it off the mountain. I pray that his owners do too, but if the dog don't, well so much for my sympathies for its owner.

As much as you guys bitch or complain, you guys would be bored to death if all the traffic didn't come on this site after the tragedy at Mt. Hood.

So what can be gained by this or any other discussion on this tragedy? I will ask a simple question and I expect someone here can answer it...where is the best location online where a climber who is unfamiliar with Hood can get a detailed route map of Hood? As I recall, Jerry posted on one of these climbing forums that they were having trouble finding maps. Is there a site all climbers can go that features a collection of route maps? Are maps available at stations around the mountain? At the summit? If not, can pdf maps of each mountain be "stickied" in a thread at the top of each forum?

Off_white: I can see the humor in your post and I can understand the ridiculousness of my question from the viewpoint of a regular climber. I'm just saying that not only do experienced climbers attempt these climbs, but some pretty inexperienced ones do to and not too bright ones do too (I've seen many a rescue from geniuses here in Arizona who attempt to climb a mountain in 90+ degrees with insufficient water.) Can they not put maps in the same places these guys left their notes? You act like it's a ridiculous question of a non-climber but Jerry, who was an experienced climber, had trouble locating the maps.

So what can be gained by this or any other discussion on this tragedy? I will ask a simple question and I expect someone here can answer it...where is the best location online where a climber who is unfamiliar with Hood can get a detailed route map of Hood? As I recall, Jerry posted on one of these climbing forums that they were having trouble finding maps. Is there a site all climbers can go that features a collection of route maps? Are maps available at stations around the mountain? At the summit? If not, can pdf maps of each mountain be "stickied" in a thread at the top of each forum?

So what can be gained by this or any other discussion on this tragedy? I will ask a simple question and I expect someone here can answer it...where is the best location online where a climber who is unfamiliar with Hood can get a detailed route map of Hood? As I recall, Jerry posted on one of these climbing forums that they were having trouble finding maps. Is there a site all climbers can go that features a collection of route maps? Are maps available at stations around the mountain? At the summit? If not, can pdf maps of each mountain be "stickied" in a thread at the top of each forum?

Arrogance is believing you have the facts when in reality (a) only three people actually know what happened and they are presumably all dead (b) you don't know if they tried to call before they finally got through but found they were out of range, or © that they felt they were in trouble or danger AND IN A POSITION TO USE THE PHONE for any extended period prior to the call Kelly made to his family. That said, I do agree that many of the climbers on this forum are so full of themselves that they are beyond extending their knowledge and expertise to others and prefer instead to belittle eveyone else's interest in their sport and people's concerns. However, I also think they take all of this as an attack on their sport, which I think is misguided. But whatever.

Um.. I only hit submit on that post once, so apparently "someone" thought it was a point that beared repeating over and over and over....

Um.. I only hit submit on that post once, so apparently "someone" thought it was a point that beared repeating over and over and over....

I'm quite cerain you stand between eveyone and happiness, but not for reasons you think or dream... What I've also discovered through my experience on this board is that even if I was suffering from hypothermia on any mountaintop and my only hopes for survival were me, my DD's and (most of) you and a bit of carnal in a sleeping bag, I'd rather die and let your peckers freeze off (if the natural coldness within you hasn't left them inoperable already, which would explain a lot in this forum.) : )

I'm quite cerain you stand between eveyone and happiness, but not for reasons you think or dream... What I've also discovered through my experience on this board is that even if I was suffering from hypothermia on any mountaintop and my only hopes for survival were me, my DD's and (most of) you and a bit of carnal in a sleeping bag, I'd rather die and let your peckers freeze off (if the natural coldness within you hasn't left them inoperable already, which would explain a lot in this forum.) : )

I'm quite cerain you stand between eveyone and happiness, but not for reasons you think or dream... What I've also discovered through my experience on this board is that even if I was suffering from hypothermia on any mountaintop and my only hopes for survival were me, my DD's and (most of) you and a bit of carnal in a sleeping bag, I'd rather die and let your peckers freeze off (if the natural coldness within you hasn't left them inoperable already, which would explain a lot in this forum.) : )

An observation that hasn't been pointed out...kellys brother said that he was found in the 3-man cave with only one glove on. There was one glove found in the small cave which was speculated to have been made to simply shelter them from the conditions as they worked and anchored...leading me to believe that kelly had been in that anchored cave at some point and that something caused him to leave the glove behind before returning to the 3-man cave...

Yo, dimwit...I suppose every smoker should sign a waiver saying they will pay for fire rescue services when their house goes up in flames because they fell asleep with a lit cigarette, or any person who gets a drivers license should sign a waiver stsing that they will pay for rescue services whenever they make some ignorant move that causes a car accident? Those services cost the taxpayers money too and more often and cumulatively more expensive than the few mountain rescues in one year...shit happens to stupid people and brilliant people...as humans we do what we have to in order to help each other. If you think otherwise, then you're just a self-centered ass...