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Thanx Miller for this wonderful information. The VO2 chart and routine exercise test can help us monitor our performance climbing Cho Oyu. VO2max is the cardiovascular system's ability to utilize oxygen, measured by the volume of oxygen consumed while exercising at maximum capacity. (maximum amount of oxygen in mL, one can use in one minute per kg of body weight. At Sea Level, my last measurement was at 65mL/mn/kg or 97% of VO2max. Again, who are we to judge a climber's ability? There is no discrimination for this climb. If you can prove that your capable to reach an 8000m summit then rope up with us!

concerned about acclimatization: Our training in our Cascades will be excellent for Cho Oyu. ...and yes, this 8000m expedition will still only cut 4 weeks out of everyone's busy daily grind! The Chinese NW mapped route is very accessible with 1 class-3 "snow-step" in between regular class 2 climbing. Sleeping in an 02 depravation chamber and personal oxygen use will be a decision of each partner. We will rendevous in Kathmandu, one of the highest cities in the world, spending 3 days of light exercise upon arriving and 2 days coming back. The acclimitization begins back on the Cascade Mtns with a steady rate of ascents/descents not to mention the carbo-loading! We will actually be training our cardio-pulmonary systems for more like a total of 12 weeks. As we bus to Zhangmu, Tibet we will be going a little higher in elevation and resting overnight. From Zhangmu, we will travel through Nyalam and Tingri to the Chinese Base Camp hopefully arriving within 7 days of touching down at KTM. Will probably turn down the Chang offering due to the bacteria content and tight schedule. Still looking for an actual acclimatization timetable, anyone have one? For two weeks we will hike to the advanced base camp, hike to camp 1 at 6200 metres, hike the mapped route to Camp 2 at 6700 metres, put on our crampons and hike the mapped route to camp 3 at 7400 metres. Summit attempt will be within 3 weeks from arriving if the weather is good. Final packing, walking down from advanced base camp to Chinese base, driving to Tingri and to Kathmandu will be done in a celebratory manner the last week. 007, partner for the Cho Oyu 2005 trip (an 8000m summit: cheap, quick, and w/o discrimination!)

with regard to permits: A climbing permit to scale the Himalayas in Nepal is issued by the Mountaineering Section of the Ministry of Tourism. The Tibetan government has opened 326 peaks for climbing. It is waiving royalty for several peaks but requires a liaison officer for peaks above 6500 meters. Visa is $50 in San Francisco! Obtaing a liaison officer for Cho Oyu has royalties around $2,500USD for a small capable group. From Katmandu we will enter China through Zhangmu driving through Nyalam and Tingri to the Chinese Base Camp. The Pay to Climb companies probably don't want climbers to be informed about how easy this is!

page 6 of this post, its time to re-state the trip objective: This post is to find a few good climbers for an 8000m climb. There is no discrimination but experience will be checked. Interested climbers have responded with the desire to climb and summit Cho Oyu. This is a 1mo climb in the Himilayas in spring 2005. Our objective is strictly the 8000m summit, cheaply but safely. The training is here in the Cascades, offering lots of cross training. Planning and training needed for this climb will be done with good judgement and regard to safety. finally, YES it is possible to organize a climbing group like this on Cascade Climbers and summit an 8000m peak inexpensively!

Thanx Marek for your detailed response. This information is helping us plan our 8000m Cho Oyu climb in spring 2005. C-2 climbing will be the length of the climb and these 10 to 50 degree pitches here in the Cascades are working excellent for conditioning. The one snow-step between camp II and III is 40m vertical in springtime. The high altitude serpas we hire at $100/day will jerk us up this! (kidding) ...at least we can attach a fixed leg ladder and pulley. The combination of altiude, difficulty, and a heavy pack is why we climb, am i right? (it's the CHALLENGE! hoorah!) The NW ridge line route is what were planning with the major negotiation being the "step". Yes, the Cho Oyu mtn has some C-5 extra credit but our objective is strictly the summit. Shishapangma, is still a walk around Central Park but with less people. This peak doesn't compare to G-II, do you agree Stefan?

Stefan and Alpinefox thanx for your suggestions, your forgeting about the the combination of exercising while in ambient lower pressure. This conditioning will leave a person with altitude or acclimitization for a short period. (based on 14k weekends, usually only a week) Does anyone know the phsiology on how long "altitude" will last in da body? The training is taking place on the peaks of the Cascades and maybe on a few 14'ers in the Rockies. Going over to the Himilayas will undoubtedly be an adjustment, but a calculated one. As you can see, even low-land training makes this summit attainable.

Frommers is a handy reference, thanx 3 weeks seems to be just enough time for acclimitization on Cho Oyu, taking into account training climbs will lead up to this. Might fly our group to Denver for a power weekend with 2 or 3 "altitude climbs" just before this. Suggestions welcome. Acclimatizing between camps, anyone know if this would be an acceptable timetable for Cho Oyu?: 3000m-5200m, 7days, light exercise 5200m Base camp, 7 days 6200m A base camp, 4 cycles, 500mb w/o o2, 6days 6700m camp II, 3 cycles, 4days 7400m intermediate pt, 2cycles, 3days 8201m tippy top, 1hr, o2 (assuming decent Wx) Please bring any real concerns on this timetable or other trip concerns forward. If anyone is still interested in this 8000m climb, we still have a few spots left. Once again, no discrimination but experience level will be proven on a few climbs. thanx

Good morning, does anyone have 1st hand experience with 8000m altitude acclimatization and time tables?

This 8000m trip assumes a certain level of climbing experience. This site is not the place to prove this level of experience. Reread the objective. Acta non Verba will be checked.

Believe it or not, you trip doubters are going to help us! HACE & HAPE are a real concern. For two weeks we will cycle through the 3 camps. What do you know about the accepted timetables assuming an average climber. We will address these concerns obviously. thanx

Our Chinese liason officer will be acquired in KTM. Based on past experiences some things are better/quicker/cheaper with less arrangement made in-between. Ever been to KTM? There is an economy of scale of sherpas, Chinese liasons, gear rental shops, massage parlors, expedition outfitters, drivers, suppliers... I don't think your "PAY TO CLIMB" companies want people to find out how easy it is. Have you ever rented something in advance and come to find out there is so many more rentals at cheaper prices?

Let me ask the doubters of this trip a question. Why are you on this site? Are you looking for partners? Who out there wants to climb with someone that has a negative attitude and is ignorant about other places? I've expressed the importance of going on an 8k trip with good judgement and regard to safety. Are climbers becoming brainwashed into thinking "PAY TO CLIMB" companies are the only way to climb? Keep your comments coming so we might find a genuine concern for this trip. thank you

This is a special thanks to CascadeClimbers.com for providing a place setup great climbing trips! The Cascades, in my book, are the best mountains out there! There is a little of everything here. There's the Eiger experience on peaks like Johanesburg, the Mckinely experience on Mt Baker, altitude training on Rainier, the B.F.E. experience on Glacier and Eldorado, and so on. What a wonderful site!

**********Update: Cho Oyu looks like our choice peak that everyone wants. Our training in the Cascades will be sufficient, Cho Oyu has one of the lowest park-user-fees, and will only cut a month out of everyone's busy daily grind! The Chinese NW mapped route is very accessible with 1 class 3 "snow-step". Our trip itinerary will go something like this: We will rendevous in Kathmandu with our personal packs and luggage. This is where we will take care of business matters with the Chinese Embassy, hiring our personal sherpas, renting group equipment, then bus to Zhangmu, Tibet one week later. From Zhangmu we will hire a driver to take us through Nyalam and Tingri to the Chinese Base Camp. We will hike to the advanced base camp, hike to camp 1 at 6200 metres, hike the mapped route to Camp 2 at 6700 metres, put on our crampons and hike the mapped route to camp 3 at 7400 metres. Summit attempt will be within 3 weeks from arriving if the weather is good. Final packing, walking down from advanced base camp to Chinese base, driving to Tingri and to Kathmandu will be done in a celebratory manner the last week. THAT IS HOW YOU MAKE AN 8000m HAPPEN! Thanx for everyone's response! (even the trip-doubters are appreciated as it flagged some concerns) Further communication will be via personal emails. Again, it is amazing what people unknowingly have to offer to meet this 8000 meter goal. To all climbers: may you meet your dreams!

I think i will be posting a new discussion on the pros and cons of "Pay for Climbing" There seems to be a lot of commercial companies these days defining what a person has to do to climb an 8,000m peak. i.e. a person must have climbed Denali or Aconcagua before he or she qualifies for an 8k. This is absolutely not the case and has been proven! I would wager to say 75% of climbers do not pay to climb. One of the best things to enjoy about climbing (group or personal) is that this sport has no rules and nobody telling you how to climb. The risk is all yours, the choices you make can give you built-in safety or the wrong choices can kill you. This responsibility is with you, nobody else. So RobBob, we don't all climb like you but please accept other people's strategies on how to get to the top!

No mid-life crisis here, i would much rather spend my money on an 8000m adventure filled with memories of a far away place than to go buy some materialistic sports car. Travelling the world is the best deal out there!

Thanx Lambone for your response, i can tell you've been around the block (world) a few times. Yes i agree the proposition i posted is simplistic and the 8000m trip will be too. Cascadeclimbers is the perfect site for seeking good capable climbers right here in the cascades! I know there are people on this site that have the experience to climb an 8000m peak and prefer to do this in a small low-budget group. I will ensure you that planning this trip will use sound judgement and there will be no discrimination what-so-ever. The interview will be hikes to the top of our beautiful Cascade peaks. Are you up for this? There will be no using the excuse of a personal injury while on one of these summit hikes (that is part of the test if you are capable or not). For those up for the challenge please send a private msg to me for further information. Update: Climbers have shown interest and we are starting to organize some of the suggestions of our 8000 meter trip.

thanx for your concern Choss Dawg. Ignorance about travelling to the opposite side of the world can be difficult. To a local climber, going on climbing trips to far away places can be associated with a hard climb. Although a hard climb, Mt. Everest is mostly a class II and did you know it's lower altitudes are climbed practically everyday. It is wrong for these "Pay to Climb" companies to capitalize on fears of foriegn places. Your favorite "Pay to Climb" company won't do your laundry and if they do they'll overcharge you. (it is only .25 USD per load in Katmandu) Don't belive in "someday" and that you'll pick this perfect company to take you up to the top of some peak, it will never happen or you will have spent your life savings. Make it happen today, which doesn't mean going about it w/o good judgement.

Bob i can appreciate your interest, it keeps this post alive. Yes i agree with you, common sense and good judgement always prevail. Relax and just consider what the post is acheiving. It is bringing together climbers that know how to climb (say class 3 and higher) and have always wanted to do an 8000m peak. There is no other objective on this post. Cascadeclimbers is the best site i know to post such an interesting trip.

I can appreciate all the responses this post has generated. Perhaps my next post should be titled "Pay to Climb". Anyways, i do have a little experience with climbing but am not here too proove that. The intentions of this post (8k trip buddies) are to get partners together for a low-budget 8000 meter climb. I love climbing the cascade peaks and believe this range is excellent conditioning for big 8k summits. Is there a specific training path to follow that leads to 8k peaks? Not really, and good capable climbers are right here in the cascades! Please send a private msg to me like others who have been interested and we will start to organize our 8000 meter trip. A dream becomes reality when it is acted upon. thank you.

OregonBob, sounds like you disagree. Please share some things on what it takes to be a good climber? afterall that is why we are on this message board, right? ...not to be good spellers or to prove ourselves with pictures of our dolls.

Hey thanx for the information! Checked out the summitclimb.com website and must say it looks somewhat decent. Still a "PAY TO CLIMB" company though. I realize since my original posting that probably a lot of viewers on Cascadeclimbers.com are somehow related with climbing businesses and have an invested interest in promoting "PAY TO CLIMB" services. As for summitclimb.com, why pay $8000 for services that would normally be cheaper than average in a 3rd world country? Why do they claim to be associated with so many associations? Are these their selling points? It is still overpriced, someone could hire climbing sherpas, eat 3 hot meals per day, and use the local transportation for like $100/day. People are being mislead into thinking big summits are big bucks, I say BS! ..by the way what is etcetera? Anyone can set up a climbing company and a claim a BS safety record. They can charge climbers whatever they feel they can get away with, upwards of $65,000 right? When the weather rolls in or the ice decides to let loose, then it is when the true follow-the-leader game begins! Did i miss something? What happen to the true expiditions? Are peoples' balls get smaller as a whole?

...that did sound strange. Anyway I just want to say that there are NO RULES to climbing ...also a person can call an obstacle whatever he/she wants. "Pay for Climbing" is a con with so many hands in the pot! There is a false sense of security too.

Ade, thank you for your post. I am on a layover and have time to finally respond. From the sounds of it you come across as experienced and a good guy with good advice. I can understand the cost effective scaling, do you know which mountains are better fitted to smaller groups? This will probably be a deciding factor in choosing the right 8k peak. I haven't had too much trouble getting local assistance on previous climbing/trekking adventures throughout the world. Lots of 'em are eager for work and I will not bring with me arrogance. I wouldn't want the cook to poison us, so I hear what your saying.

Checked out the Ogawa-mtnadv.com and must say it is a little better than the usual "Pay for Climbs". I like the fact they offer high altitude sherpas for $100/day. This is what I'm talking about! I want to represent a climbing group that feels like they shouldn't have to pay for "stuff" they don't need or otherwise wouldn't purchase just because it is an 8000 meter peak. This is not a Shangra-la trip for us, it will be strickly a summit!!