tomrogers

Any experience or herese regarding the use of Canyon(eering) static ropes as haul lines for wall climbing. For instance: a traditional static rope has about 2.9% elongation (you fall you hurt) a Canyoneering staic rope has about 4% elongation (capable of falls ff< 1.0) a dynamic rope has a >7% elongation So the bottom line question is how do they haul (200 lb) as compared to a standard static line in actual practice. I hate to waste all that energy. Regards, tom

where can one go to have slings replaced for camming units in the Greater Seattle region? Costs, Quality control?

Here are some other items to consider. Permit me to use approx numbers and not defined actuals for this discussion. Ropes are rated within certain dynamic forces limits, lets say 2,700 lbf based on a 65 kg climber (REMEMBER THE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATE) I do not know the climbers weight, heavier or lighter, but the loadings can approx extrapolated. This is the maximum force the rope is permitted to impart to the climber, based on a theoretical fall factor of 2. In reality, this force is under 2 due to the test set up. So the fall force calculators may be overly conservative in this calculation. Given that the climber was at least 60 feet out from the belay and the belay device was not a static device (which has its own running friction point), and the rope went through several biners which in practice generate much load-reducing friction (thereby further reducing the load), the climber (which implies his rope too) did not see a high load factor. A question to ask: how was the belayer tied-in -- tight or loose. was the belayer jerked and highly loaded or how hard was the load received and for how long of a time. Remember the rope is rated for a specific load. The rope will continue to stress, although possibly not linearly, it will continue to stretch until it losses all of its elasticity. This elasticity is the driver for a given load. Let's say the 1st piece reacted a 1,000 lbf, lets say 600 lbs to climber and 400 lbs to the belayer. The rope at the reaction point is work-hardened while the remaining rope is less work-hardened. The rope in effect, still has at least 2,100 lbs (2700-600) of margin remaining to be further reacted by further stretching. Another issue which must be considered is that a force can only be reacted by an opposite equivalent reaction. How long was the belayer loaded up? When the climb was falling did the belayer react the loads --through each and every piece -- which failed? Did the belayer -- feel the load continue to increase through the failed pieces? Once the belayer's reacting forces eased or stopped the forces to the protection would also diminish. Think about what it would feel like to react a 2,700 lbf load. Most of use would buckle from the thought of it. I don't think the rope's hardness played a rope in this case but rather the protection pieces interface with the surrounding rock. Regards, Lets becareful out there.

Wow, this discussion and the mattp's topo and scott's photo really relps clarify the route and its history. Great job you guys. I love the Yosemite and High Sierra regions but when it comes to this route combination, this route ranks with some of the best in the country. PS, I say we get together and fill the freekin rope eaten bastard crack up with plaster once and for all. That damn crack cost me some serious pain in the ass a few years ago. Climb on... Climbwild

We bagged our plans to climb some of the multi day routes due to wife problems. So we climbed Dreamer instead. If this climb were in Yosemite, it would have an entire line of stars beside its name. It has "Classic" written all over it. Route update: The last two pitches (the 5.8 runout, knobby pitches above the two 5.9 pitches) have been (re) bolted and now have brand new gear and good protection. In my humble opinion, these two pitches offer some of the most fun climbing of the entire route, now, which possibly the exception of the Blue Crack (5.9 pitch). I had not done these pitches before since the guidebooks have suggested that most parties rappel before these two pitches due to bad runouts and there unpleasant. This is the not the case now. See my comments below regarding the status of the first of these two pitches. Dreamer 5.9, IV (semi to sustained climbing) Summary: Drive Issaquah to Darrington 2 hours Drive Darrington to trailhead 1 hour Approach to base of ALTERNATE START, 1 hour Climb 5 to 10 hours Rappel route 2.5 + hours, if rope does not get eaten by rope eating crack below the Blue Crack Two ropes required, if rappelling Medium Rack, one set of nuts and cams from small to 3.5", several doubled cams in medium to 3.5" range. 10 slings with several doubles 2 cordalettes Pitch 1-2: Alternate start (5.6): this start adds (2) pitches to the tradition climb (11 pitches now). This start is about 200 ft below the traditional start, look for cairn next to start. It follows a left facing corner (very thin crack) with occasional bolts to a big bush far above and the start of the traditional 5.7 crack of the climb. This start allows one to not down climb the slabs in the dark and rain if need be. Pitch 3: 5.7 crack and slab to another bush Pitch 4: 5.8 slab, mild run out which 2 or 3 bolts. Climb rightward and rising about 10-15 feet to first bolt. The next bolt is the same above. Do not traverse hard right to off route bolt. The next belay is right and above in a groove. Do not climb direcly upward, at the start of this pitch, as it leads to an alternate 5.10+ direct route (well protected and the crux is at the last bolt, also well protected, the majority of the route is sustained 5.8) Pitch 5: 5.8 slab more runout then the former. Climb left or directly to the first bolt. Do not get sucked into the groove proper as it is slick and un protectable. Plus chances are you will miss the first bolt thereby making it very very runout. Several bolts to follow. Belay is far above and way leftward. When rappelling the route do not rappel back via this pitch. Pitch 6: 5.7 slabs and 5.6+ crack (around corner by the bush). The slab traverse is tricky. It is runout but about 5.6+ if one traverses LEVEL over bulge to knobs and then up. Harder if leftward rising attempt. Climb to tree. (This tree is a good rappel option which will keep the two cracks below from eating your ropes after you pull them from the start of pitch 7.) Climb crack to top of pillar, make wide step across to right facing corner and then up to belay. If rappelling from the tree, be sure the ropes do not go into the cracks below you or you could end up cutting your rope to free it. The tree is due for a backup sling to a high chock stone, 10 ft long sling. From the tree rappel back to the strat of pitch 6. Once again do not let ropes go into the cracks below. The cracks are narrow and open into a wide void beneath which you have no access to and several rope members reamin to tell their stories. An alternate so-so rappel station is nearby just in case it happens. Pitch 7: This is the Blue Crack pitch (5.9). cracks up to piton and bolt. After the bolt, traverse right on face (5.8) along flaky edges to small roof. Undercling leftward traverse (5.9) until one turns corner. Keep feet semi low on traverse, it's all there but is very committing. Protect early. After corner, face climb (5.8) into crack. Follow 30-40 feet to belay on the arete. Later, when rapping to this belay, ensure the rope is not going down the fall line but rather rightward towards this belay or a difficult and scary tension traverse on a slick wall will be required - not fun. Pitch 8: This is the last 5.9 pitch. Climb to bolt which is three feet from crack in roof (5.9). Do not go straight up bushy corner. Rather undercling traverse (5.8+) leftward until around the first roof (approx 10 feet from bolt). Protect traverse for the follower. After rounding the corner of the first roof ascend upward to 5.9 face climb, protected by (3) well spaced bolts. Upward to belay. We did not do the 5.9 face climb, but rather continued unknowing off-route by undercling traversing of multiple roof systems another 30 - 40 feet into a dirty corner. And then upward and rightward traversing back into belay (protection this way is okay and climbing somewhat consistent with the initial 5.9 undercling traverse. Once again, protect the second as its a long ways over. This way maybe somewhat easier then the 5.9 face climb, I assume. When rappelling from here angle sharply rightward towards belay below. Rappel backup maybe warranted. Pitch 9: Awesome pitch, 5.8 knobs, a sea of knobs and approx 6 or so bolts. From the belay you can see two bolts in the leftward distance which climb leftward 20 ft over a short section of 5.4 knobs this is the start of the 5.7/5.8 portion. This line climbs LEFT and on top of the big right facing corner which looks none too good. From here follow the bolts until you can not see any more bolts and a crack system appears up ahead. At this point make a rising rightward traverse to the final bolt which leads to the belay which is not visible until the bolt is reached. The route book says most people don't climb these. I do not understand this because they are two of the finest pitches now. Perhaps the route the guidebook author spoke of is the line which ascends to the right of the big right facing corner. It looks bad indeed. Perhaps the leftward route is the correct one. If it was then the comment to not climb it would be justified, if the pitch did not have said bolts. The route would be rated a X, death or severe injury, if the bolts were not there. Because, at best, there are only 2 protection points for the entire pitch and not well spaced at that. Pitch 10: More of the same quality, but less sustained. Traditional gear required later on. Pitch 11: to top, straight forward. We didn't do.

Hello, I am thinking of heading out to Slesse or the West side start for the complete North Ridge of Stuart tonight. Slesse: Is the pocket glacier of Slesses still there? If so, can one get to the toe without an axe and by using running shoes? Is there snow melt still at the bivy? Stuart: can one get to the toe without an axe and by using running shoes? Is there snow melt still at the bivy? How hard (rating) is the west side start variation? PS, Dave Burdick, if you can find a partner you are welcome to go. Thanks a lot. tom thomas.a.rogers@boeing.com

Hello, we are going to climb the NE Ridge of Black Peak this weekend (and the East Facetime permitting). Are there any snow updates or suggestions regarding these routes? Thank you in advance. tom thomas.a.rogers@boeing.com

Hello all, I am returning to climbing after a two year injury. I heard the other day that the access road to Dreamer was no longer open. What is the current condition now. As of when? How far is the road now from where it was. Thank you, Tom

Does anyone know the route conditions now for the Coleman glacier on Mt Baker. My dad (65 years young) wants me to take him up this weekend so he can finish off his PNW volcano quest. Is the road open yet to the trailhead? How is the headwall now? Regards, Tom Rogers

As a photographer, I find all of the activities climbers perform do massive harm and damage to the outdoors. Live the time a came upon a group of you pals, the Mountaineers. They left a trail 6 inches deep and 2 years wide as they trashed a wet lands area. Or how about the many times I have seen dirt trails thoughout the backcountry. I have consistently seen the shinny metal hangers and those ratty slings on the sides of rock faces. Or the many times I have wanted to take a picture of a wonderful snow slope or rock face only to find it spoiled by a climber in the midst of it. Spoiling it for all would would truely try to enjoy it and not subvert it. Climbers if I must say are nothing but a bunch of self serving people who do not care about the enviornment, but rather only about their selves and their rush. I think we should all band together to stop all climbing and the raping of our MOTHER EARTH. Look how they leave all of their trash everywhere. I hate climbers and their dirty deeds. They care only for themselves

In thirty years I have yet to see any oil cans in the back country. Want I have seen is a lot of trash and vandalisim on hiking trails.

The UIAA standard requires that even if a double rope(old school)is used in a twin configuration that the impact forces still be less then or equal to the minimum requirements of a single (full rope). If you pro is good enough for a single rope then it should still be good enough for a doubled double rope. They say you should still clip with different biner though as to not burn the sheath. But this is another arguement. cheers.

How did you break the bolt? Was it body weight or a fall. Last time I was up there it was looking great and very safe. Much better then several years ago anyway. And yes I prefer not to have boomer anchors for bolt ladders. Just new rivets would be okay too. Thanks for the hard work Mike. P.S. to the other guy, DO NOT install non stainless steel primary anchors just because they are stronger. Once the corrosion begins the strength advantage is gone forever. regards, tom