Anybody used the large trango ballnuts?

[Matt_Anderson]

I've got the two smallest ballnuts (I know - easy target) and I love 'em. They slot where nothing else will, they have cought me repeatedly on falls this summer, and the myth about them being impossible to clean is just that - a myth. My partners have only had trouble removing them once (a single jab with a nut tool to the "block" part of the piece usually does the trick, even after catching a fall).

I was checking out the specs for the third smallest one when I did some comparisons on the large ones (4 and 5). They cover the same expansion range as the smaller aliens, camalots, etc, have far better expansion range than the corresponding aliens, camalots, etc. and are lighter to boot!

Has anybody used the larger ones? Any anecdotal evidence about them placing beter/worse than your 3 or 4 cam units of choice? Any times they yanked out where you didn't think they should? Any times they held when you didn't think they would?

Of course, people talking out of their ass who have never used them or even seen one but have opinions anyway are also welcome.

They look like a better mouse trap.

matt

[willstrickland]

Matt, can't comment on the larger ones other than I'd take a cam over one anytime it'd fit. I've ripped enough perfect looking red and blue ballnuts in sandstone to dick with them unless I need to. That being said, the red and blue are pretty sweet for LA sized cracks or even beat out blade cracks...makes stacked blades look pretty silly, they are a pretty potent addition to your arsenal if you're trying first clean ascents. Some cam hooks,regular hooks, brass offsets, alien hybrids, and ballnuts will get you up alot of stuff cleanly if you're willing to run it out a bit. I know Matt already knows all this, just spraying for others who might decide that going clean is the way.

[Matt_Anderson]

Diving further into it . . .

I mainly climb granite but I've also been squeamish about their holding power on the soft stuff. I'm looking for clarification because there are some long sandstone routes that I'd love to have small light protection on.

You said perfect looking placements: does that just mean that the positioning looked right or that the rock was also good sandstone (i.e. vranish/wingate). When the red and blue ripped on you, were they catching a fall, yanking during a bounce test or just wizzing out when you weighted them aiding without a test? Did you go back and see tracks where they came out?

It seems to me that one difference between ball nuts and cams is the following: since their expansion works on metal sliding/grinding against metal (as opposed to the rotating action on a cam) that they expand less easity than a cam. My guess is that this is less of an issue on really solid/nongranular rock (a non-issue from my experience, on good granite) but more of an issue on soft/granular rock (grainy sandstone) where it is easy for things to track out. Do you think that explains our different experiences?

In short, I'm guessing that they'd be scary on the granular sandstone, but seem like they'd be just fine on the varnish.

What think? Is it that? Is it something else?

matt

edit/P.S. Another way to look at the question: Would you have been suprised to see a blue alien track out of a similar quality placement on the same quality of stone (obviously the alien would need a wider crack)? When I go down south for routes would I be foolish to consider a blue alien well placed in quality *varnish* bomber? They sure are in granite.

[ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Matt Anderson ]

[ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Matt Anderson ]

[willstrickland]

When I say "prefect" placement, I mean that the geometry, contact of the piece, etc were approaching ideal, the quality of the rock was the factor in them ripping. In the hard varnish I'd think they'd be bomber, typical wingate...iffy, Zion...take your chances. The ones I ripped were while bounce testing, and one or two while easing onto them without testing...because they wouldn't hold during a bounce and I didn't want to nail. The factor seems to be that the sandy cracks allow them to slide around instead of biting on the little flat end of the ball and causing the wedging action. I would have been suprised to see an alien track out of a similar placement, but on the same route that I repeatedly ripped a Red Ballnut, I ripped two TCUs in decent placements, and took one of those in the grill.

[haireball]

I found the next-to-largest sized useful on the E. ridge of S. Early Winter Spire last July...

It would fit into a hole that a camming unitwas not compact enough for. I like the ballnut in all of its sizes, although I'm far more addicted to the little ones. I like carrying singles of the two largest sizes, and multiples of the three smallest.