I may have worded that wrong I can wait alittle till prime climbing season is in swing. I just returned from a trip jan 6th a winter expedition seminar. It was more like a tourist attraction there was like 13 others on the trip all of witch were at least in there forties and most likely going through a mid life crises. I was amazed that out of everyone NO ONE besides myself and the guides knew how to tie in to a rope. Not a vary good experience, my five year old daughter is more educated in the mountains then these guys were, so I'm looking for someone that has a good bit of experience on rainier and maby I could make a donation do some new equipment .