LHwildcats76

Fine, point taken. Now given all that, you should also send an email to the sheriff and media to stop all their 'pointless' reporting since it's not worth a hoot either.

For someone who doesn't care about my posts or answering them, you sure do go to a lot of trouble...while speaking on behalf of others in the process.

After all is said and done, I think the lesson to be taken from this horrible tragedy is so simple, maybe that's why no one wants to dare suggest it so as to risk upsetting someone. 1. Leave yourself an ample cushion of time for any unexpected mishaps or weather. 2. If your goals don't allow for extra time, don't go. This isn't second guessing or belittling the climbers. I would never intentionally do that, and if you read through my posts, you'll see I haven't done that. I support their decision to do what they did, and I'd never tell anyone when they can or can't climb a mountain.

I don't listen much to people in padded cells either.

That isn't a hand, it's part of an airplane. Now will you please shut up and stop posting on this website? I was simply trying to describe what I saw in the picture to get some help figuring this thing out. Contrary to what many here think, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. People are often careless and let a hand slip into the picture. I had no way of knowing it was an airplane in the way, and I'm appreciative of the person who pointed the anchor out to me. I see it now. Some things to keep in mind... 1. Iain seemed to have credibility and wouldn't make up a story about the infamous 'Y' being something not related to the climbers, something that had been there for years, once serving a different purpose. First, he had a picture others didn't, which told me he took it himself or possibly had sources close to the investigation. Second, he had lots of posts to his credit, which reinforces that he's not a transient here. Thirdly, other apparent regulars to this site know him. 2. If the sherrif is right after all, then I don't understand why a credible person, Iain, would say what he said. (Unless the Y shaped rope in his first pic is not the same one in his second pic.) If they are the same anchor, then the first one was taken with a powerful zoom lens, cause it looks like it covers a much larger area than in the 2nd pic. If they are not the same one, then why was the first one taken to begin with and distributed to the media? Hmmmm? 3. Why don't you contribute something intelligent to the thread instead of telling people to shut up and go away? 4. And by the way, sending people PM's and calling them idiots isn't the way to stop them.

A family member, I believe it was Frank, was quoted in the news as saying that in a high school wrestling match, Kelly dislocated his shoulder, popped it back in and kept on going to finish and/or win the match.

Just an idea, which may get shot down as speculation, cause it is, but I haven't heard anyone suggest it. Everyone is assuming there were two accidents...one that dislocated Kelly's shoulder, and another that the other two experienced. Since we know that Kelly had a false sense of reality when he made the phone call as evidence of sounding 'delirious' and stating that one of the other climbers was 'on an airplane,' that tells me he didn't have a clue what was going on. That's as absurd as saying the climber was in a movie theatre watching Santa Clause 3 and munching popcorn. Or, maybe a head injury causing amnesia or something else making him hallucinate and forget the past. Which means he could have been the only one of the three to come out of a bad accident and make it to the top...ONE accident. There was some debate here as to whether the tracks shown in the photos are one person or two...two axes or one, etc. I don't know how two people are trained to go up together, but if it's two that went, it looks like they used a technique of the lower man deliberately putting his feet where the others guys feet were NOT, staggering the foot placement. Else, eventually, the lower guy would step in the exact same spot. Or if it's one person, his steps were short and axe work as well. It's hard to tell without some scale to the photo. Those tracks could each be two feet apart or more for all I know. The report was that the tracks lead from a snow cave, straight upward, then faded out near the top. If such tracks would only be left in a climb, and not a decent, and there are only two people at most, then the sherrif's story is contradictory. Why do I need to 'buy' his story? The same reason anyone needs to buy the story of law enforcement or a lawyer in a courtroom. We want to know what happened. I can accept not ever knowing for sure. What I can't accept are contradictions from the same authoritative sources, and claims that a Y shaped rope used to support a shack that has long been torn down belonged to these climbers. This is crazy. The public may not deserve answers, but if I were a family member, I'd be asking more than a few questions, not to challenge anyone's ability or integrity, but to learn the truth. This 'case' can't end like this. No way. Yes, it's a case. A law enforcement officer is running the show and collecting evidence. That's his job, as it should be, but he shouldn't get away with announcing facts that are hogwash and/or later contradict his own facts. Where are the pictures of the rope, foam pad, axes, strewn on the side of the mountain?

I had to page back through every page to find these photos, finally finding them on page 3. The second one just shows the tracks. The footprints are sideways, sloping slightly down and to the right. Other photos I've seen show them going straight up, assuming the camera was right side up. I don't know which way is up on this one, and I don't see an anchor, webbing, gear, or anything else except maybe some rocks sticking through the snow, and the photographers hand in the way on the right side of the pic. What's the deal? As for the Y shaped photo, the first one, all I can say is, you've absolutely positively have to be kidding me, right? The sheriff himself referred to that photo as being something the climbers made, and that he himself was wondering why the media had turned it sideways when the Y in actuality was pointing straight downward. This is crazy.

Me, not competent, but I'm asking a lot of the same stuff, and no, I haven't given up til something makes more sense than the sheriff.

Thanks for the response. You refer to the helicopter accident which I've seen footage of on Youtube. The mountain was covered with snow. Did they die from the impact with rocks buried not far beneath the snow surface? If not, then what from? I present these links for your review. Is it Tie-In Rock? Is it the top of Mt. Hood? Were you talking about winter only? Or are these pics somewhere else on Mt. Hood, nowhere near the top? The people aren't mountain climbers and they're only hiking. Pages 2 and 3 of the first link show people dressed for summertime, standing next to ice that isn't melting. OK, is it 30 degrees or 80 degrees? I don't get it. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://thumb7.webshots.com/s/thumb3/1/67/65/174816765oyifXJ_th.jpg&imgrefurl=http://community.webshots.com/album/174816012uIoKRT&h=75&w=100&sz=2&hl=en&start=22&tbnid=B23s8vQDjPeQSM:&tbnh=62&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtie-in-rock%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN http://adamschneider.net/photos/2005-07-cs/image/p7192036.jpg

It's very frustrating for me to hear descriptions of parts of the mountain and not know the mountain. I've tried to google images with limited success since you can't see things in relation to other things. Questions for anyone wanting answer. 1. Is there an online resource anyone knows of that shows the topography, with parts labeled? I saw two pictures on Google of two different glaciers, and they looked identicle. 2. Would Tie-In-Rock be THE highest point of the 'summit' where the elevation measurement is taken, and where most climbers who wanted to say they had been to the very top would want to reach? The media keeps saying that the caves were just below the summit, yet the helo pics show what looks like a very wide ridge that you could walk across for awhile. Tie-In-Rock is not like that. It's a pointed rock. 3. Are the huge ragged rocks where it showed the airlift taking place the pearly gates? Or are those big nasty rocks part of the hogback? There appear to be more than two, and its been said that they tried to decend a path between them and couldn't find it due to conditions. I don't know which two are the 'gates' and haven't seen all of them shot in one photo with a camera that's wide enough. That must be the south side cause all the postcard pics show the n. side. 4. I don't know that I buy the sheriffs account of what happened, that the 3 spent the first night together in a cave, especially after hearing the interview with the first rescuer to reach Kelly. I've heard for a week now that the south side is so much easier to climb than the north side. Could wind conditions and visibility on the south be SO much worse than the north, that whatever the reason was that the two climbers felt they HAD to get off that mountain immediately would cause them to backtrack and go down a very difficult descent? Is that consistent with typical of Pacific storms, that the wind encircles around from the west to the south, rather than the north? And if they tried to go back down the same path they came up, where are the foot tracks? 5. I've read how many people 'set out' to climb Mt. Hood every year, but that doesn't mean they go to the top. I've seen pictures of people in t-shirts and shorts climbing Mt. Hood and standing next to glaciers at the top. Some pics had MINIMAL snow at Elliot, surrounded by dry rock. What months are best to go to get a happy medium between some snow, but no where near what there is now? Can you EVER hike/rock climb to the very top without climbing 'gear' or hanging from anything? Is it considered so dangerous and narrow, such that if you fall to one side, you're gonna keep falling awhile and potentially get hurt? I'd never want to get hurt up there under any circumstances. I'd want to go to the top, but how high should I go and when should I do it? How many hours up and down if you camp or stay as close up as possible to cut down time the next day? Where's the closest to the top they'll let you camp out at night if you took sleeping bags so that you didn't have to do both directions in one day? or is that possible? 6. I heard a rescuer say today that you could last through several days in a 32 degree snow cave when it was -30 outside. I had assumed that the severe cold is what made them take desperate measures to save their lives. Even with a food shortage and a severe arm injury, what would then cause you to not just stay put for longer? 7. Are anchors used to go either up OR down? What do we know as fact, based on a Y shaped anchor pointing downward? I googled pics on anchors and found nothing like that. I can't envision them using that for anything. They said it was to hold them to the side of the mountain during a storm. Really? In a Y shape pointing down? These weren't window washers. Would they have used other ropes to tie to the anchor to lower themselves down a level, then leave the anchor there? What do they then do for ropes if needed again? The pic looks very steep unless the cam was pointed straight down at the ground. I wish we could get some pics of that thing in relation to the side of the mountain. Every bit if info just opens a can of questions for me. This is like a mystery and I feel like a detective. This isn't suppose to be like the Jon Benet case. 8. The sheriff said that aluminum anchors were dug into snow. Bad choice of words perhaps, but snow won't hold any weight. Did he mean rock beneath snow? What's a good web page for 'anchors 101' cause right now I don't even know how people get those hooks into rock, and I certainly can't see doing it in a blizzard conditions. If anyone wishes to answer part, not all of this, please list the corresponding number. Thanks in advance and excuse my ignorance.

You don't have to be tired or cold anymore. You are in a much better and safer place now. An eternal home. And we shall see you soon enough. You were great.

Perhaps the rescuers are loosely using the word 'cave' when nothing was actually deliberately dug out at the second location, and for lack of a more appropriate way to describe right now how they found him. I haven't heard of any equipment being found inside a 2nd dug out cave.

If the two returned to find KJ deceased, that would be a reason to build the man his own cave(?). Perhaps tracks were found between the two caves, but no one has reported it yet.

Post deleted by LHwildcats76