beefcider

thanks to all for the infos and the useful link, I figured that sewn slings would work fine. I'm probably going to stay away from tying my own unless I'm in a pinch.

I'm heading to the Peshastin Pinnacles on friday and was wondering if there are any good TR anchors with easy approaches there? I haven't been able to find a decent map of the routes there, does one exsist?

I'm short on the QDs but have plenty of biners. I;m wondering if there is an expedient way to make QDs from pre-sewn slings or should I juts save the bucks and wait until I can afford a set of draws. I've heard that using webbing and the water knot doesn't produce very reliable results and should only be used in a pinch.

I use a Nikon F100 and the N80, not especially cheap but both are solid cameras. There is a lithium battery adapter for the F100 and it makes it much lighter. I have heard very good things about minolta's cameras but because they lack the marketing capital of canon or nikon they don't get the press they deserve. The maxxum 7 is one of the best cameras ever built. The question really comes down to what you want. Lightweight P&S or APX type cameras all offer about the same quality of image respectively. I have a Yashica T4 and am not that impressed. It's well built but the images are so-so. If you are out there to climb and just grab a few shots the P&S works fine. If you want enlargements and lack of grain, then you'll have to start using larger formats, sharper lenses, tripods, better film or a combination of all four. Technique plays a huge part as well. The drawback of a Meduim format camera vs. a 35mm (slr or p&s) is that it has less depth of field. This is a huge pain in the ass if your images have alot of near-far relationships. MF cameras are expensive and the ones light enough to climb with are horribly expensive. The Mamiya 7 or 7II rangefinder comes to mind. Very, very sharp images but several thousands of dollars just to get one. There is no precise control of depth of field due to the rangefinder contruction. There are alot of twin lens reflex cameras for very reasonable prices, such as the Mamiya C330 or the C220 6x6 TLRs with interchangeable lenses. Also very sharp leaf shutter lenses but close focus can be an issue. So again, it really matters what you want. Unless you are out there to get stunning shots don't worry too much about which camera you use other than the basic features. Until you get to the pro level of SLRs, all cameras within a class offer the same basic features and image quality. Once you get to medium and large format it's get really diverse due to the wide range of applications. As for batteries, unless you are shooting 40 rolls a day in any camera, the only problem will be weight. Be smart, change your batteries before heading up the crag. Lithium batteries are light and stand up to cold temps very well. The only camera that I have battery issues with is my digital one and thus I never take it. Sorry for rambling...

Dudes! Benton City rocks! What, with the mecca of Umatilla not far away. Tasty lickins fer certain. A bit of lingering radiation never hurt anyone too terribly much. Yes, I've been there many times on my way to Flagstaff. I would also add that Mossyrock is a fine, fine town itself. So is the bumpin town of Othello as well as Waterville. I'd still vote for Mossyrock or Roy though.

I'm not ragging on the mountaineers, I just don't want to be part of them. As for what could be done to "fix" the situation I think that at the very least they could reduce class sizes to 10 percent of the current size, this would at least make them look like they cared enough to practice low impact, no trace climbing instead of churning out hundreds of new climbers per year who each have the potential, through ignorance perpetuated by volunteers, to destroy the land and crags they have come to "appreciate and protect". That's my opinion. I don't see huge drives for maintenance with the mountaineers of anything except clubhouses and cabins. The WTA is always out fixing damaged trails and approaches. They actually practice what they preach. According to Steve, He doesn't have much pull. He certainly has more with the mountaineers than I or anyone else I know does so the real question is does he care about the crowds he's perpetuating? I would venture to say that he only cares about the money that comes into his organization and what orders he's given. They may have a charter, funding, a bunch of books and thousands of members but that doesn't make it an intelligent organization. So no, I'm not ragging on them, I'm just very, very glad I didn't take the basic class from them. I'm embarrassed that I even signed up. Now open: Beefcider’s Climbing Club. You can only be a member as long as you don’t belong to any climbing organization, including mine.

Organized militia? All of the badasses in the organized militia in Manson, who were predicting Doom on the eve of the year 2000 had a base camp in them thar mountains. On said eve of Doom, they were going to set up a defensive perimeter in the base camp to guard the barrels of food with imported chinese AK-47s and plot and scheme and attempt to steal a helicopter from the Chelan airport but what really happened is that the wives of these badasses told them they were staying home and watching fireworks on the TV instead. It's amazing what you can overhear in small town bars... Yep, real americans in an american setting.

I understand that the original post was in a sensitive, corporate seminar speak tone of wording but here is my take on the mounties: I got into climbing the same way alot of folks do these days. I went to a gym, got interested and wanted further instruction, but not being the social type there weren't exactly tons of people dying to take me climbing. Someone I know said the mounties had a basic course and that it was fairly good instruction. I went down to the office, signed up and was told that I would probably be put on a waiting list. It isn't first come, it's dependant on your length of membership. A lazy person who has been a member for 10 years can sanke my spot at the last minute even if I was the first to sign up. I didn't like this much but also didn't know of any alternatives so I waited, hoping I would get on the list. I also did as much research on climbing/instruction, etc as I could. The more I read, the less I liked the attitude of the mountaineers. After you are "accepted" you have to volunteer your time to teach others, I saw this as haphazard because I was there to learn to begin with, not teach. This led me to RMI (yes, RMI) and a considerable investment into climbing instruction. More research, alot of it on this board. has casued me to change my direction entirely. I had no idea how crowded the areas really were or that groups like the mounties and RMI were some of the main crowders. I don't want to be led or told what to do out of a book, I can do that on my own. I don't want to be part of a cattle drive. To some, these threads get old but I would never have known, until I actually got into the class, how bad it was. I have no doubt that I would have bailed on the first day. I had enough barely useful field tests in the army to last a lifetime. I decided to take my axe, boots, crampons and some rope and go learn this on my own. In short: Fuck the MountaineersFuck RMI, Fuck guided climbs Fuck Climbing Groups. Maybe a little "fuck the gym" is in order but I still go there sometimes.

Nope, never lived in Omak. Spent two years nearly slicing my wrists in Manson though. I'd chew my toes off before living in central washington again. I really like going to Mazama but the local transplants have a very elitist attitude, like they're glad they moved out there from Seattle but what the fuck are YOU doing there? You, you, you city person you. Now in Roy, they are glad for a little conversation, though it's usually in the form of you trying to talk your way out of a ticket. Also: Enumclaw is nice if you're into Rainier and still need a job.

c'mon people, there are far better towns in the NW than I have seen posted here. Nobody mentioned Omak, Creston, Thermopolis, Dewatto, Vernita (wait, they removed that town), Benton City, Entiat, Union, Belfair and my all time favorite place in the NW, right here in sunny washington: Roy. The scene in Roy is way, way hip. You do need a foam front hat to block the blinding cosmic rays and I think there is a fiber content quota. The mystery meat rocks.

Sobo, The WFR is something that I have planned for the near furure. Thanks for the idea on NOLS though.

W It's never been my intention to use RMI as anything more than a place to learn the foundation for more skills. I don't forsee ever using a guide service again and would even prefer that it was only a course in mountaineering and not a summit climb. Who knows, maybe the weather will work out that way and I can come back and climb it without a guide. I only know a few people into mountaineering and am lucky to know a couple of dudes who have climbed all over the world for the past 25 years, they aren't willing to teach me all of the basics and would prefer that I knew some glacier travel skills, even if just the rudimentary ones, before going on any climbs and I can certainly understand that. I am concerned that RMI may not be living up to what they are promising. Like many before me, I got interested, signed up and started doing research on climbing in general only to find that the place I'm planning on starting may not be the best for me. thanks for the reply.

"RMI's been advertising heavy in the big climbing mags for guides, both beginner and advanced." Yikes.

I appreciate the concept of self-taught anything, it is usually the approach I take to learning just about everything. I'd always rather learn on my own than take a class but I was advised not to do so with mountaineering due to some of the risks involved. I suppose my follow-up question would be: what do you consider self-taught? A book or a guide can only take you so far, this goes without saying but I imgine the difference from one opinion of self-taught to the next would vary widely. Thanks to everyone for the useful info!

They haven't assigned the guides yet, at least they hadn't when I last talked to them which was about a month ago. OK, maybe I'm not calling them weekly anymore but I did pester them quite alot. Are you doing the 5 or the 6 day course?

Rich, From all of the info I can gather, RMI doesn't use the main routes for either the 5 or 6 day course. That was one of the main reasons I went that way, less people throwing blue bags at you for going with a guided group. I still see it more as a crash course (pun intended) in glacier travel. the summit is secondary.

Thanks for the infos, I'll try the DF on 5/8 tubing and stick with the water or beer version on 1 inch.

thanks for all of the input,Lots of informations to digest. I guess I was a bit vague on my goals and why I'm going this way. I'm interested in any type of climbing. Rock, Ice, Scrambling, etc. I singed up for the class last fall and then started reading everything I could find on anchors, climbing, routes in the Casacdes and on Rainier, etc. In the months the have followed I've ended up meeting with several friends that have invited me on various climbs of various types. Everything from Mt. Adams to 5.3 slab. Another friend of my brother offered to lead a climb on rainier in august but only if I had learded the basic skills of glacier travel & rescue. He had also suggested AAIs two week course but I just couldn't stretch mu bufget that far. To be frank, I hope but don't count on making the summit on rainier with RMI. It's not something that I'm planning on doing once but hopefully many, many times. I've been grilling the guides at RMI on a weekly basis and so far they've all been friendly and informative. I'm not looking to have my hand held all the way up, I just don't see much point in that. As far as I can tell, we will pretty much choose our own route (within reason) and what skills we want to work on. I think the first day is the same 1 day climbing class they tech to everyone else amd then it's 4 days mving about the glaciers with a summit attempt in there somewhere. I see it less as a guided climb and more of a class. I could be very, very wrong and will certainly post my opinions after it's over.

I keep hearing that that standard knot for tying slings at rap/belay anchors, or slings of any kind always seem to use the water knot as opposed to the double fishermans knot. Is there a greater chance of a DF knot coming untied or do they not work well on slings?

Last year I signed up for one of the six day RMI trips (coming up this july) that is supposed to be on a less populated route and grant the pseudo-climber some limited experience without being one of the many sheep led up the two day climbs. After talking to a few people and reading alot of posts, I'm starting to have some conflicting thoughts about this. Several people I've talked to have said they got started climbing with a guided group while others say it's not worth the money. I'm curious if anyone here started out that way and how they feel about it in retrospect. I know many don't like the idea of guided climbs at all, mostly I'm looking to gain some experience and have a good time. RMI seems to get a bad rap and I can see why with the amount of people they guide on the two day climb each year. I only recently learned about climbing classes through the mountaineers or the WAC and they have already started this year so I'm not sure if I have any other options but am certainly open to ideas unless they are about Miracle Whip and then I get downright unruly.

Marmot Lightspeed GTX Jacket, yellow, XL. I shrank and needed a smaller jacket so I'm selling this one. Used very little. no frayed zippers or seams. Washed a couple of times. Looking for $175.