tobytortorelli Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Originally posted by Erwin: All ya PNWesters on skis need to throw on a board. erwin, all ya east coasters need to go home! yah! and because you ski east coast sytle with your hips swishing from side to side, i understand why you'd want to snowboard. snowboarding and skiing both rule, but don't tell me to throw on a board. o.k.? steamboat sucks. yuppies and flat terrain. no snow either. you can buy some boots like jim carrey in dumb and dumber and wear them around. (that was aspen in the movie) anyway, have fun and don't come back to PNW. o.k.? thanks. jib on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobytortorelli Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 six inches new at baker! going skiing on (finally) smoothed out glacial snow this week. bye. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: C'mon Mitch post the link! Cpt., The link is my living room window. I live at 4000' about 25 miles NE of the Enchantments. I can see Witches Tower among many other peaks. -Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfort Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Matt: Many years ago Chouinard (Black Diamond) used to make a plastic piece that could be fitted on the toe of ice climbing boots to allow them to be used in tele bindings. Anyone have this accessory? Ahh,, some kind of strap-on, eh? Never heard of it, but it's hard to see how that could stand up to the rigors of today's equipment. I bet I would break it right away. Not because I ski hard or alot, but because I have a penchant for breaking tele gear. (I destroyed 3 pairs of bindings and two pairs of skis in about 3 years - When I broke my CRB toeplates, Voile replaced them w/o question, but asked for the bindings to be sent to them, because they'd never heard of them breaking before) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Knuckledraggers drool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Yeah-- a strap on for us genuflectors. I ripped a binding out of a ski when a snow snake grabbed hold of me from under the snow and forced me to bow down to the snow god. Face plant city. My binding stayed on the boot but the screws were pulled from the wood!!! Gotta watch out for those sneaky snow snakes! [This message has been edited by Matt (edited 10-12-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Chounard toepiece was designed for approaches, not tele descents. Make one out of wood, can't be that difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Burt Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 The Chouinard toepiece was for approaches w/ plastic boots as Beck said. They discontinued it because folks were whining about high speed face plants when the toepiece failed under the torque. It consisted of a plastic toe mold with a thin metal hingepin that connected to the old Chouinard 3-pin binding. Nice idea w/ poor execution. Tele's the best, but old knees are starting to like paralleling - might switch to AT gear to make the paralleling even easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Speaking of AT gear- I'm ready to take the plunge & get some of my own. Not that I have $$ to burn, but if you could buy any outfit for all-around Cascade AT, and price was no object, what would be your ideal setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobytortorelli Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 "free the heels and the mind will follow", "tele is the best". please!!!!! come on dudes!! i own multiple set-ups of alpine, randonee, and tele skis, with which i cannot find one dicipline of skiing i like best. please enlighten me to your simple resolution and maybe my mind will be freed! but from what i have yet to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Burt Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Well, that's a good question. Might be nostalgia and a misplaced sense of aesthetics - I started xcountry touring and racing at an early age, so the free heel feeling is ingrained. I don't care much for the lifts except as an occasional tuneup of my turns or to catch a powder dump on a weekday when the crowds are down, so piney skis are out... maybe it's the clunk, clunk, clunk of the AT boots on the uphill that is a bit of a turnoff. Up till this past year or so, I've associated AT gear with ski approaches to climbs, but I'm coming around to the leg-saving advantages of AT. The way tele gear has headed, the difference w/ AT is in some ways moot except for the flex in the forefoot of tele boots. As a matter of fact, my tele bindings are mounted on Atomic AT skis - nice combo. How's that for a non-answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Freeheeling allows for touring in mixed terrain without changing ANYTHING with your setup. No clipping in to turn down an 80ft bump in the terrain. You can parallel turn in tele gear, you cannot tele in Rando gear(for any length of time/torque) In addition, the spped of touring on freeheel equipment is unmatched by any AT or snowboard/snowshoe setup- Also the weight factor. I ski in medium weight leather boots and don't have any problem cutting turns down from Camp Muir or shredding 40 degree slopes or skiing crud/ice- I still haven't gone to plastic boots, but I don't ski lift, Does this make tele BETTER? No. I believe it is the most asthetically pure mode of winter transport around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Sorry, duplicate post- [This message has been edited by Beck (edited 10-13-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobytortorelli Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 kyle, whatever you choose for yourself, try buying from telemark-pyrenees.com. they are gaining popularity from U.S. buyers and, in turn, have brought down prices from major distributors here at home. (mainly the overpriced black diamond co.) scarpa boots, tele and randonee, are lower priced this year from b.d. but, even cheaper still at tele-pyrenees. example...denali and T1 are both just over 200.00!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Tele Geek: "Free your heel and your mind will follow" Snowboarder and AT guy: "Fix your heel fix your problem" Telemark.. French for "Hey guys wait for me." If you telemarkers still skied on double camber skis with leather boots you might have a right to be stuck up. Modern tele gear is just poorly designed AT gear. I never hear an AT guy talk about ripping his bindings out. Come on guys get with it. The 60's are over. The Dead don't tour anymore. Nobody owns an 8 track player. Why should you ski on crappy gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 I like telemark skiing because I can do everything-- skin up, ski down, bumps, powder, backcountry, corduroy and all of this with one pair of skis. If I could afford to buy lots of skis I would. I'd like an Randonee set up, but I don't think I'll get one. I'd like a snowboard, but I think it can wait. I love the versatility of telemark skiing. Teles are the ultimate all-arounder. I love the retro of leather boots and wool knickers while cruising amongst the plastic and goretex. Basically I love the feel of getting down on one knee and having the snorkle effect. When you kneel to the snow god on tele skis knee deep powder seems like chest deep and waist deep powder is that much more. Telemark skiing is a form of existential athleticism. Your gear does not define your style-- only you do. I can't wait for the snow to fall!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Beck, If you own AT gear why on earth would you want to do a tele turn. On the other hand I've seen lots of telemarkers skiing alpine style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobytortorelli Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 tele defenders: tell me something i don't already know!!! after all, i tele also. good times! i have to say, wool knickers sound cute! what about the wet days? are they around your ankles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Here’s my analysis of the relative merits of Tele gear: 1. Tele tours better. Whether using light or heavy boots and skis, the flex in the foot is (for me) significantly more comfortable. Also, the fact that the ski is slightly sprung so that you can pick up the heal of the ski when stepping over logs or other obstacles in the woods is a definite plus for a lot of PNW tours. 2. Tele gear skis just as well, overall. When it is better to use the parallel turn, I parallel on my tele set up, and it works just fine though not quite as effective as would a binding with a locked heal. But when it's time to make slow speed turns because of some kind of terrain problem, I've got my AT buddies beat every time – the tele turn can be executed with almost zero hull speed. 3. Tele gear is not as safe. The bindings don’t release like the AT or downhill bindings. I know, I’ve tried the release plates, but I just couldn’t get them to work all that well and they aren’t designed to release in the same range of situations. 4. Tele gear is a historical accident. Had it not grown out of cross country skiing, few modern Americans would be using telemark rigs (and probably few people in Norway, either, for that matter). . 5. Tele gear has cache. People say “hey man, you skied that on TELE gear? Rad.” 6. Tele skiing is just plain fun. Apart from skiing, U believe my tele boots are better suited for the peak climbs that top many tours, even with that damn flange on the front of the foot. When it's time to kick steps and walk a little bit, my plastic tele boots are more comfy than the AT boots my friends wear, because of the foot flex. When it's time for a little ice, I use rigid crampons and they climb OK, too (I realize that earlier threads have included assertions that this will break the crampons, and I'm sure it will happen to me if I try to climb Mt. Rainier that way, but I've used the rig in the Coast Range and in the Cascades for relatively short climbs like N. Face of Chair and NE Face of the Tooth, and my crampons show no signs of undue stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Burt Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Eloquently put Beck, Matt and MattP. There are practical considerations that favor AT gear in certain situations, not to mention the relative safety advantage of the AT binding (esp. given the trend towards bigger plastic tele boots). On the other hand, there is nothing like the feeling of carving a big radius tele turn on the steep in calf-deep powder. Both styles have their practical, and not so practical place. That's enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Erwin: All ya PNWesters on skis need to throw on a board. Been skiing all my life in the east coast. Tried a board one demo day with a fresh blanket and was hooked. In the east, you have an excuse to ski with the ice and moguls. Not out here. Those pot-head boarders sitting on their ass (wasting their money) watching riders rip the half-pipes give the sport a bad name. Boarding on virgin snow and in some trees will blow skiing away. So sold on the excitment for a real winter (not this rain i see in Portland, as well as the possibility of being laid off), is sending me to Steamboat. Here great things of it. Any beta out there? Erwin get out of the PNW Right Now! Have fun in Colorado where you can earn minimum wage and live in a trailer park 60 miles from the resort you work in. I ski with plenty of boarders, but I have no desire to switch. I only dislike boarders who sideslip down slopes they don't have the skill to ride. You can take your attitude about pot with you to Colorado too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 13, 2001 Share Posted October 13, 2001 Any telemarkers out there? Personally, I prefer the free heels to a snowboard or regular down hill gear. Tele boards are lighter and better suited for the backcountry. I have a question for the peanut gallery: Many years ago Chouinard (Black Diamond) used to make a plastic piece that could be fitted on the toe of ice climbing boots to allow them to be used in tele bindings. Anyone have this accessory? Free your heels and your mind will follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 I found an article for those of you thinking of taking up backcountry skiing. I'm sure it won't sway the radical tele faction, but I think you newbies to the sport should read it before you put your blinders on and buy tele gear. http://wildsnow.com/articles/at_article_big/at_article_big.html My view is that Tele skiing evolved in Norway, where there are lots of rolling hills. When the technique was brought to the Alps, where there are lots of big steep hills, people found that fixing you heel to go downhill was a major improvement. While you can find rolling hills in the Cascades, there are lots of steep stuff out there. I know a lot of the oldtimers who did the first skiing in the Cascades and they all skied on bindings with fixed heels for descent. So, in the Cascades, if you really want to ski in traditional style go get yourself some AT gear. I might also add some of you tele guys may not realize that a good AT skier can ski with their heels unlocked and skate along at the same rate of speed a free heel guy can on the low angle stuff at the bottom of the run. I've never had someone on tele gear leave me in the dust at the bottom of a ski run. I've skied with lots of people on tele gear. Some of them can really rip it up, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be abused for their anti-AT cliches and their purist attitude. Think Snow! [This message has been edited by AlpineK (edited 10-14-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 Free your mind-your heels will follow. My opinion- Steep terrain = high avi hazard. New backcountry skiers should stick to rolling hills untill they can confidently read the snowpack. Ohhh, wait...I forgot we were in Washington- nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 15, 2001 Share Posted October 15, 2001 If you go anywhere in the backcountry you should know something about the snowpack and its risk. Avy conditions in the cascades aren't as tricky as the Colorado Rockies, but you should think about what you are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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