none_dup1 Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Hi friends, I just saw on the American Safe Climbing Association web site (safeclimbing.org) that the Mazamas donated $500 for bolt and anchor replacement at Smith Rock! Pretty cool! I know Ryan Lawson, the guy who has done a lot of bolt replacement and new route development at Smith, and he has spent hundreds of hours and several thousand $ from his pocket for this important work. Nice to help him out a little. It's a good reminder for all of us that rely on bolts that A) someone spent a lot of time and effort to put them there, B) they cost moolah, and C) they will deteriorate over time. Cheers to Mazamas for stepping up and supporting their local climbing area. (Hey Mountaineers - how about a matching donation? Mazamas have 3,000 members, and y'all have about 15,000!) Safe cimbing to all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Maybe we could get a fund together to help pay for the cost of chopping bolts near cracks in trad climbing areas. Oh no not another bolt topic! [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-08-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Maybe we could get a fund together to help pay for the cost of chopping bolts near cracks in trad climbing areas. Oh no not another bolt topic! [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-08-2001).] OK, now list them. Seriously. Only please leave the Vantage Choss alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 List bolted cracks. Those that were climbed without (pre-placed) pitons, and then later pitons removed or stolen. List "unnecessarily" bolted you can actually climb! But don't digress into unnecessary flaming, give us the list, hopefully some will be in WA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none_dup1 Posted October 8, 2001 Author Share Posted October 8, 2001 Dear anti boltheads, Let's not turn this into a sprayfest of US vs THEM. If you have never clipped a bolt in your entire life, then you have a right to rag. Fact is at Smith (and most any other crag I can think of) even the good trad routes have bolt anchors and rap stations we rely on. It's easy to flame on line. It's a bit harder to down put some cash to support safety at your local climbing area. Please, this is not the place for a bolt philosophy rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 quote: Originally posted by nuts_n_screws: Dear anti boltheads... I haven't seen unnecessarily bolted or unjustifiably bolted climbs yet, or maybe less than a handful I cannot even recall. That's why I realy wanted to know what are they trying to fight, ghosts? Sorry to support digression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Rafael H: OK, now list them. Seriously. Only please leave the Vantage Choss alone. I know this is going to get some hackles up, but there was a time when Little Si wasn't a sport climbing area. A couple of friends and I climbed the crack routes there before the place was mobbed. Anyway, at Little Si, Amphetamines and Reptiles can be well protected without the bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 quote: Originally posted by ScottP: OK, good, just keep it coming, no sense scrutinizing individually because of geom progression of diff threads. Let's get 10. Thanks. (nuts-..., this will keep the topic alive for longer and your inital msg is first) [This message has been edited by Rafael H (edited 10-08-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Gorilla My Dreams - Index Did they bolt this cuz they thought a fall on this would result in a cut rope? It was bolted on the outside of the crack so I figured this was the excuse.... [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-08-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 4ft Crowbar $40 Wall Hammer $70 60m Static $100 Epoxy $10 MiniHacksaw $15 Saw blades $10 Labor(minwage)$15 Climbing a boltless classic crack- Priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizard_brain Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 Brilliant, tex! Wish I'd thought of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 1. Amphetamines and Reptiles 2. Gorilla my Dreams 3. ? is this all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Red M&M's Frenchmans Coulee,O ya It's already been chopped and rightiously so it was a good example of out of control bolting.I don't think Reptiles and Amphetamines needs to be on this list ,It's not a crack test piece and it's been an established sport climb for like ten years in a mostly sport climbing area.I don't think we need a chop list any more than we need a retro bolt crack list.Threads like this need to disappear. Most of us have a grip on what is right and what is wrong,The key word here being MOST.Can't we find another issue to flame each other about. [This message has been edited by LUCKY (edited 10-08-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 1. Amphetamines and Reptiles 2. Gorilla my Dreams 3. 5.8 arete, #3, Little Bridge Creek Rock 4. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Rafael H: ... please leave the Vantage Choss alone. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 NO, NOT A DE-BOLTING LIST. I am trying to find out how much of a problem bolting of cracks is. All throughout many posts there is constant ranting about it, just look 2 posts above. And what, just 2 routes?!!! Bolting is a complex and sensitive issue and I just wanted to help weed out the noisy and unconstructive loud-mouths. (Lucky, why can't people just read more than first 2 letters of the first sentence I am neither pro- nor anti-, just love climbing, all of it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael_H Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: Why? OK, don't. Which ones? How many? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrosaurus Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 1. Amphetamines and Reptiles 2. Gorilla my Dreams 3. 5.8 arete, #3, Little Bridge Creek Rock 4. Pudding Time 5. Shrinking Ball Disease 6. Spinning Mars 7. Pony Keg 8. ? Medicine Man and Dance of the Shaman used to go to the top of the towers and were artificially shortened by the addition of TR anchors. Dance of the Shaman especially had some interesting,cruxy moves to the top of the tower. [This message has been edited by Retrosaurus (edited 10-08-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Rafael H: OK, now list them. Seriously. Only please leave the Vantage Choss alone. List the costs or list the bolted cracks? Costs: 4ft Crowbar $40 Wall Hammer $70 60m Static $100 Epoxy $10 per route MiniHacksaw $15 Saw blades $10 Labor(minwage)$15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 In reference to what Lucky said there is some good thoughts he has there.. I think that there are other examples of poor bolting at Little Si. Just go look at "You get what you deserve" 5.10b OW. A fwe more cracks to the left of that too... I am not trying to make a chop list. More like list poor examples of drilling. [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-09-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 If anyone wants a current copy of the American Safe Climbing Association's latest newsletter PM me and I will send you one, I've got some leftover from the Fall Ropeup. Their mission is to REPLACE deteriorated bolts and rap stations at ALREADY BOLTED climbing areas, they've replaced thousands throughout YOS valley and Smith Rocks, as well as Devil's Lake Wisconsin. as far as I know they DO NOT advocate new bolting, rather keeping the Vert world safe from unsafe bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
none_dup1 Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 Beck, Thanks for the clarification. I should have made this more clear in my original post. ASCA does NOT promote or pay for bolting of new routes, only rebolting / replacement of existing, unsafe bolts. I did say REbolting on my post, and gave the URL for ASCA (safeclimbing.org) if anyone wanted to check them out, but there are some on this thread that don't seem to read past the first line or two. Sigh . . . Shoulda' known better than to start a bolt related post. xo, nuts_n_screws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallstein Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Nuts- The ASCA does in fact does add bolts to routes. They aren't that high and almighty. Almost 20 bolts come to mind that they added to a routes in Yosemite. This is not to say that I wasn't for these new bolts but they have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 Yikes go on a trip come back and nothing has changed. Same bullshit N & S makes a positive post regarding people/groups stepping up and contributing to their local area(s) and immediately the BS posts start coming and the thread diverted. Last time I posted Forrest claimed (incorrectly) that I inserted this issue at every opportunity. Glad to be able now to show him corroborative evidence showing his error. The first reply by TG was just a smart ass interjection of the bolting issue. Rafael replies ok then list them specifically asking that Vantage be left out. Will “shove a bolt up your ass” Strickland then spews unrelated BS. (Note his moniker comes from his previous well elucidated response regarding how to place a bolt.) After several rational posts ScottP wins the prize by coming up with the first real one for the list. Here’s a toast to Scott. Cavey’s additon comes next. Maybe it’s good maybe it’s not. Rafael seemed to be asking for routes actually climbed without fixed gear. Has this one? (Aside to CC: What do you think of the bolted lieback variation pitch on Grand Wall? And where does it look like a bolt might get cut on GMD?) Tex then adds another BS post to this thread. Next comes a series of clarifications and then Retro gets “permission” to add his list of Vantage routes. Cavey then adds the weird bolting at Little Si. Then come a couple of posts about the ASCA. So here’s a recap: Ignoring the Vantage area we have a grand total of four routes: Little Si (About 100 routes) R & A You Get What You Deserve Index (About 500 routes) Gorilla My Dreams Leavenworth (500 routes?) Arete Route SUPER RECAP = 4 routes out of 1,100. So if we ignore Si and Vantage and concentrate only on the “traditional” areas it’s only 2 out of 1,000 routes? Doesn’t seem like it is a out of control situation at these areas at all. Issues regarding replacements of specific bolts aside, I think that in general we should all encourage the replacement of old bolts/fixed gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 So Peter, If you don't like it don't read it. It really shows here that you have some grudge against some of us. I think your comments are about as fucked up as anyone else's. It is interesting how you think your views are the only acceptable ones out here. Here you stand as superman fighting off the bad people like me for instance. If you note above I never was saying that bolts need to be chopped just offering my opinion on some routes since someone asked (a friend of mine that I might add). Knowing some others that do not agree with me that have made some posts on the other side of the argument I accept their opinion. However you choose to lead a crusade for a battle that does not really even exist but in your own mind. Get off your high horse once again. I know Lucky and respect him as a person. Even if I do not agree with his views I will climb with him. If you read what I wrote closely then you see that your comment above is provoking this response here. Never at any time did I say cut bolts on GMD. I merely asked a question about it. It is becoming increasingly more obvious that you place bolts yourself. Perhaps you want to avoid scrutiny when or if your identity is made public.. Your regurgitated nonsense is about as typical as I am sure mine is at this point. Here's to your politically garbage post. [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 10-10-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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