olyclimber Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 what are you using for lightweight rap cord, and where did you get it? Just looking for cord to pack in order to statically rap alpine routes. I guess 60m? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave schultz Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) 6mm accessory cord form Mammut, mine is 75m to work with my 70m single to account for some static stretch in the climbing rope. http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-accessory-cord-150m I got something like this ^^ and made a 75m tag and a 35m tag, then use the rest for my v-thread cordage. I don't normally use my tag on alpine routes, there is just not much utility with a tag line. For an extra pound or two (or equal weight if you have a heavy single) you could get use two ultralight single ropes (there is an 8.5mm by Beal and an 8.7mm by Mammut) and have a full backup rope if you need it. You could also use double ropes, but there is potentially less utility with one double rope as compared to one single rope. I normally use my tag where there are normally two rope rappels and I just want to use one rope, or a two pitch type crag (the Gunks) where I can go from the top to the bottom in one rap, again, without using two ropes. For alpine I don't find much justification on the tag because it lacks utility. It is obviously MUCH cheaper to buy a 75m length of accessory cord than it is to adjust your rope quiver, but if you build your rope quiver around that idea I think it works out better in the end. Edited June 2, 2016 by dave schultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 yeah i saw that mammut cord...way too much for me. utility cord i guess then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 My experience with tag lines are as follows: - 6mm will work, but tangles a lot. It also seems to hang up in the Cascades on every rock, bush, nubbin, etc. - 7mm works slightly better. - Maxim 5.5mm Tech cord might be the best alternative, although very expensive. I think the stiffness would lead to fewer tangles and hang ups. - The lead line/tag line scenario only really works well when there is little to hang up. In AK it works great. - I stopped doing the tag line thing unless I plan on aiding pitches. More safety and less hassle with double ropes. - I also might be the last guy using 50 meter cords. Although I've seen well know guides using 50 meter cords as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0zer Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) For an extra pound or two (or equal weight if you have a heavy single) you could get use two ultralight single ropes (there is an 8.5mm by Beal and an 8.7mm by Mammut) and have a full backup rope if you need it. You could also use double ropes, but there is potentially less utility with one double rope as compared to one single rope. Would you elaborate on this a bit more? Other than the obvious, where's the utility in two single ropes? - I stopped doing the tag line thing unless I plan on aiding pitches. More safety and less hassle with double ropes. - I also might be the last guy using 50 meter cords. Although I've seen well know guides using 50 meter cords as well. Why only tag lines on aid routes, and the reasons you use 50m ropes? Very interesting discussion, just looking for more insight. Thanks. Edited June 2, 2016 by d0zer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Beckerich Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 5mm Titan - so light and strong https://www.bluewaterropes.com/product/titan-cord-with-dyneema-5mm/ Plus I also have another 30m of some regular 6mm... can do full 30mm raps solo for less than half the weight of rope - was essential for my free solo streak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Why only tag lines on aid routes, and the reasons you use 50m ropes? Very interesting discussion, just looking for more insight. Thanks. Aid routes requires the second to Jumar/ascend the rope, and if you've done that at all you want a beefy single rope, at least 10mm. The tag line is to do full length rappels, and to haul up gear while on lead. I like 50 meter ropes because there is less rope to hassle with, they are lighter than 60 or 70 meter ropes especially with doubles, and are plenty long unless you are climbing routes equipped for 60 meter rappels. My general ethos is only carry what you need. I don't need the extra 10 meters most of the time, 20 meters if using doubles. It should be noted that Vince Anderson and Steve House used a 50 meter lead line (8mm), and a 55 meter 5.5 mm Tech cord tag line on the biggest alpine face in the world, the Rupal Face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave schultz Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 For an extra pound or two (or equal weight if you have a heavy single) you could get use two ultralight single ropes (there is an 8.5mm by Beal and an 8.7mm by Mammut) and have a full backup rope if you need it. You could also use double ropes, but there is potentially less utility with one double rope as compared to one single rope. Would you elaborate on this a bit more? Other than the obvious, where's the utility in two single ropes? Not much more other than the obvious. Best example I have, on the Nooksack Tower-Price Glacier link up I did in 2014, we core-shot one of our ropes while rappelling off of Nooksack Tower. We were using two 9.2mm single ropes. If we had been using a tag and we had core shot the main rope we would not have been able to continue to Price Glacier (at least not with a full length of rope); if we had core shot our tag we would just be stuck doing 30m rappels. (The core-shot rope then became a glorified tag line since the butterfly isolation knot would obviously not go through a rappel device.) If we had been using double or twin ropes we would have only had one full length double or twin rope to continue on Price (still doable), or bail. If not doing a link up, but simply doing an up-and-over (i.e. Stuart NR) the concept does not provide much benefit, one single rope is probably best. If doing something were two ropes are required to descend, and the option is two dynamic ropes or one dynamic and a tag; the choice to use to very small diameter single ropes vs two normal sized half or twin ropes, can provide more flexibility if something were to happen to one rope. That something could be a ice pick through it by the follower, ice or rock fall, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Esprit AER functions as an excellent rap line: small diameter and lightweight, yet with a stiffness that handles like a much thicker line. Reportedly could even hold a leader fall in a pinch. http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Tag-Line-Reviews/Esprit-Alpine-Personal-Escape-Rope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Anderson Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Reportedly could even hold a leader fall in a pinch. Plenty of static lines can hold leader falls, they just result in extreme damage to the leader. Where did you read/hear this? I read the OGL review and can't find anything about holding leader falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Esprit AER functions as an excellent rap line: small diameter and lightweight, yet with a stiffness that handles like a much thicker line. Reportedly could even hold a leader fall in a pinch. http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Tag-Line-Reviews/Esprit-Alpine-Personal-Escape-Rope thanks marcus...i think this fits what i'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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