MrGecko Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Saturday I was back out to Wolf Rock to finish rebolting the Barad Dur line with Juan. After climbing this line a few weeks earlier and noting that there were still a few 1/4" bolts on route as well as at a couple belay stations, I thought it was time to complete the upgrade. A number of older Leeper 1/4'ers got chopped as did the thin hanger SMC 1/4" time bombs. Some of the bolts snapped as I tried to loosen the hangers and others broke with a single hit from my hammer with maybe 50lbs force! Any remaining 1/4" bolts are either close to newer bolts (ie. you don't need to clip them), in places where gear could be used or are located at belay stations as a third bolt (I typically use those to hang, flake & organize the rope but not much else). The route is still "sporty" in places but at least you have the same level of protection as when those older bolts were first put in. Apart from having to climb with a couple of heavy packs of bolting gear, we had a great time on the route and made fairly good time getting back to the car in about 7 hrs including all the rebolting. Thanks to the Portland Vicinity Re-Bolting Group, The Mazamas and the American Safe Climbing Association for their support with this project. This 1/4'er is no longer This old SMC now replaced with this stainless steel beasty. Belay station with 1 x 3/8" and 2 x 1/4" bolts. That 1/4" in the center looks reasonable but with about a half turn or so the nut it snapped off in my hand. Belay station is now bomber. These might as well been just glued to the face...snapped with one hit of the hammer at about ~50lbs force I would estimate. Note that these bolts protected a 40-50' run out and that the belay station below was also relying on a 1/4" bolt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Colon Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Thanks! May I ask which pitches were updated? Also, does anything know anything about (Chris Fralick's?) route "The Steps of Cirith Ungol." There is a brief mention in Greg Orton's guidebook but I can find nor hear nothing else. Is it remotely safe or is it a bunch of these kind of quarter-inchers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 cirith ungol's got good bolts - nice to know barad dur's in better shape as well gotta shrink them photos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I really appreciate that you left some select pieces of history for everyone. Any asswipe, like me, can easily bust off all the old shit and plug in new stuff with a power drill. The real mastery is upgrading what needs upgrading while leaving the feel and memory of the history behind for every other climber to discover or remember. It sounds like you used your brains to do exactly that,and although no one can ever please everyone, it's a mental game that needs to be played out and I'd bet no one will be unhappy with the results. Good on ya for doing it that way. Thank you both, that's the way to roll. ps, don't shirk the photos, they are most likely more important than all the words in the thread:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzack Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I've never been on this route, but why do most of those 1/4" bolts in the pictures look so new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 do you mean why, if they're new, are they 1/4 inch and not something like 3/8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzack Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Ivan: What I was asking is why do some of those 1/4" bolts in the pictures look brand new (no rust)? I have heard of a bird or two that still places 1/4" bolts (in remote areas, if they are hand drilling), but usually associate 1/4" bolts with antiquity. Is this a case of the former? How old are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 short answer is i don't know - different materials, different ages, different exposure to water, was rusted when it was first placed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksportn Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) George, I don't see any new 1/4' bolts in the pics. There are a couple of 1/4" bolts that look like they don't have much rust, but that's just surface level. You have to remember that Barad Dur is mostly protected by roofs, so the bolts on the upper pitches rarely see water (unless they are in a spot that seeps). So externally they won't rust much, because they dry off any moisture pretty quickly. However, I find that inside the bolt hole, it rusts just like any other bolt exposed to rain, as moisture gets trapped in there, and begins the rusting process. Edited September 17, 2015 by mksportn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksportn Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 And to answer your age question, those hangers are the old (recalled) SMC hangers, made between 1962 and 1984, so they are at least 32 years old, and Barad Dur was put up in 1972, so I'd guess those hangers and bolts are original to the FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 That is a question for the Mazama Historian GZ. However, the age sequence (from memory so don't yell at me) went like this: SMC - first hangers were plated steel. The rustyish one is such. The SMC logo is read normal when the hanger is installed. They ditched the plated steel and went with thin Stainless. The SMC logo is still read normal when the hanger is installed. Later, and I don't remember the dates but probably the 80s, they beefed the stainless thickness up and rotated the logo 90 degrees. As any "rebolter" will tell you, these thicker SS are the only version worth a crap to hold up well and have some longevity. So, those SMC's in the photo appear to be both the earlier plated steel/and SS versions. Coupled with Michas info on age and overhangs, and that's probably the full meal deal explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzack Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Wow! If those bolts are that old, that is amazing that they look that good (at least on the outside). Almost unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksportn Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 That's exactly why lack of external rust is not a good indicator of bolt quality... I hear that all the time "Oh, its not rusty, its fine". Then I pull/break the said bolt, and its super rusty inside the hole, and/or snaps off easily. If it's not stainless, its going to go bad in this area. question is just how long, and I'd say from what I've seen, that a non-SS bolt that is past 25 years old is a pretty solid cutoff date and should be replaced, visually rusty or not. I have yet to find a bolt older than 15 years without substantial rust, and I've found too many that were in the 5-10 year old range that already showed signs of heavy rusting inside of the bolt hole. ONLY SS should be used! Drives me crazy that a few people are still using non stainless bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 i only place bolts made of mithril - hella better for hauling 600 feet up the route too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksportn Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 i only place bolts made of mithril - hella better for hauling 600 feet up the route too I'd fall on those any day! ;P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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