pope Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Thanks Muffy, and I agree with you in many ways. The sincere appreciation that has been expressed to me by students and parents doesn't pay bills, but it certainly makes me feel good about going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 When we first moved to Washington in the summer of 1999 the state had a billion dollar surplus. Amazing how quick things can change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Fairweather, what about Initiative 747 that limited property tax increases to below the rate of inflation? Our regional library has had to reduce hours, and didn't King County have to close all their libraries for a month or so? Due to reduced transportation funding courtesy of Eyman, (the $30 license tab can be laid at his feet, whether it was the initiative or the scared spineless legislators acting on the "people's will") bus service to Tenino, a generally low income working class small town 15 miles south of Olympia, has been discontinued. In fact, all rural public transit in Thurston County has been cancelled. Thats just the direct personal effects on me that come off of the top of my head. Does that new tire and dented rim from an unrepaired pothole on a poorly maintained rural road count as an effect? Â Eyman's initiatives are facetiously marketed to the public as tax reductions, that government is full of fat that can be trimmed, and its up to legislators to make do. In fact what they are is service reductions, and the public is led to think that they can have it all and not pay for it. Property taxes also fund schools, fire departments, police departments and a host of other local services. Folks like Bill Bennett decry the degradation of American values, but I think its the ever diminishing definition of community shepherded by the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately greedheads that's changing this nation into the Fuck You Society, where if I get mine, you can suck the hind titty. Whether he's a cause or a symptom, I gotta agree: Tim Eyman Sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Nicely stated, Mr. White! Â I haven't heard about the KC libraries closing, but the Seattle libraries were closed for two, one-week stretches in 2002. Foes like to say that this is just political strongarming, but I do know firsthand that my wages when I work for the City have been negotiated to a rate of less than CPI (like 80% I think) every contract year since I 695, and that a number of programs the City used to bankroll (like ArtsEdge at Seattle Center) have been either eliminated or seriously scaled back. Â Metro bus service is now so sporadic and unreliable that I can never use it to get to work, therefore driving every day. The nature of my work makes carpooling sometimes not possible. Â Most of what I've seen reduced has diminished the quality of life in Seattle. At least for the poor people and middle-class Janes like me. Â Yes, Tim Eyman sucks, and the voters are stupid for buying his line of BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Do you believe that the governor's state budget proposal is actually a CUT versus the prior biennium? The budget is actually increasing. It is amazing how some folks view a slowing rate of increase as a "cut". "Tapping on the brakes" a little does not a u-turn make. Â Re: property taxes. When property values increased dramatically during the late 80's and 90's, the state realized a huge tax windfall. (My property taxes quadrupled. Inflation did not.) They (Lowry, then Locke) grew state government far above levels of increased population. It was inevitable that the good economic times would slow. Locke is only now realizing that trimming the state budget means reducing the number of state employees. Â Fortunately, state teachers are not going to get hit with layoffs. Additionally, the people of this state voted for teacher pay increases, and the will of the people should be upheld. Locke will have to cut elsewhere IMHO. I find it ironic that folks like you support the voices of the initiative process on one hand (teachers), but not the other (Eyman). My position on the initiative process is consistent. Yours is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Do you believe that the governor's state budget proposal is actually a CUT versus the prior biennium Nope, its actually a 2.35% increase over the previous biennium, but since that increase is below the rate of inflation, and certain costs such as health care and insurance have increased at a rate far above inflation, in real dollars this budget constitutes a cut. My property taxes quadrupled. Inflation did not As you mentioned, it was the growth of the value of your investment that caused your taxes to increase, not a quadrupling of the rate. My taxes went up too, made me crabby, so what. Additionally, the majority of your property taxes go to local services, not the state's general fund. Typically I believe the state gets about 28% of your property taxes, and that goes to schools.  My position on the initiative process is consistent. Yours is not. Please re-read my post, I've taken no position on the initiative process, so I am at least at as consistent as you. I think Eyman's initiatives pander to that whats-in-it-for-me dark side of the worship of the individual, but that says nothing about the process itself. Good god man, don't you realize that's a whole other dreary topic to spread about for pages and days? Lets save that one for when winter is really old and bleak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Tim Eyman for President Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Tim Eyman for President of a watch repair company. Really that is all he is good for. Yes anyone can go out and say "I want to reduce your taxes" but that guy (that stole money from his supporters) cant be trusted in reducing taxes without reducing payouts for teachers, police, fire.... Fwiw, I beleive in a audit.....flame on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnGoat Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 "it was the growth of the value of your investment that caused your taxes to increase, not a quadrupling of the rate." Â Which is part of the problem here. Until such time as Fairweather, or anyone else, actually *uses* that value, they're being taxed on what they have not gained yet. Property taxes should reflect the market value *paid* for the property, or the value used for a mortgage or equity loan, not what some third party claims the value is. Taxing someone on what the value "could" be, when they have not received that value, is merely a way to increase revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 duh, goat you're the meister of stating the obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdietsch Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 But my real question is this: Gov. Locke wants to ignore the initiative that requires pay raises for teachers in order to balance his budget. Why can't he choose to disregard Eyman's initiative instead? Dumb question i'm sure but i'm really curious. Â given the basics I am sure Olympia/Locke could attempt to ignore anything they really wanted to. In your senario I think it comes down to what would ultimatly be less popular ? Â re-instating licesne fees and asking people to cough up $100's for each rig they own ... keeping in mind that +7% of the state population is unemployed and many, many others are getting squeezed to the max to make ends meet ..... Â or.... Â tell the teachers and students that for at least for the next year or two they need to do with what they had last year ... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 I happen to think that there shouldn't be a deliniation between Eyman's initiatives and the pay raise for teacher's initiative. The voter's have approved all of the above.  It just strikes me that since Locke is making a huge production about how we're all going to have to sacrifice right now in these lean times that he should consider all of the options. If you're going to ignore one initiative why not also ignore another. Raise car tabs. Adjust property tax for inflation....whatever. I just don't thinkt that teacher's should get shafted b/c Tim Eyman own his testicles.  Of course the budget for this period increased. It always does. I'd cheer if he figured out how to actually reduce the budget but I'm a realist. I know that's not going to happen. The problem is that the budget has increased, the state needs more money, and there are better ways to creatively address the issue than only ignoring one initiative. It's not even enough to make up the shortfall  Was the billion dollar surplus based on failed budget predictions or was it actual cash in the bank? I'm unsure of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Was the billion dollar surplus based on failed budget predictions or was it actual cash in the bank? I'm unsure of this. I just remember the headline in the newspaper. I think it was the boom before the bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted January 16, 2003 Author Share Posted January 16, 2003 I remember hearing that stat too. I've always wondered whether it was an accounting 1 billion or a cash 1 billion. hmmmm... Â Another question: I can't remember did the initiative for teacher pay raises provide a method of funding? Is this possibly why Locke can ignore it. Yes I know I could look this up and I should remember the details but I'm just lazy today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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