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      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

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chirp

On losses, regulations, and free will.

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Sadly, this year has been cruel for many in the climbing community. Natural diasters, untimely accidents, and old age have taken some memorable folks.

The rest of us remain here awaiting our cue and doing what we can to pass the time and keep a smile on our faces.

 

I admit my timing was a bit off and for that I do apologize.

 

However, this does open up some interesting oportunities to re-evaluate ourselves and our views of the world around us.

 

I have not posted on this board very often in recent years as climbing has taken a backseat to other pursuits. I remember in the 80s and 90s when I was 100% climbing obsessed and I thought I would ALWAYS be part of the community.

Time marches on.

In these days of dwindling resources and increasing population, climbing has become "popular" and crowds at the crags have multiplied massively.

Groups such as Access Fund and a few local groups around the country work with land managers to find a balance that will allow us to keep on climbing. Their message is to be respectful and law abiding to each other and the non climbing community in order to keep the crags open and the ecosystems that surround them, protected.

 

Well traveled and/or "famous" climbers have the responsibility to set examples for the up and coming generation and to the non climbing public. Climb hard, crank the rad, be Extreme is the mantra for all the teens entering the climbing world today, numbers are king, 5.15, V15...etc.

Our resources are limited and looking at the impact of folks today from the "Pad people" to the mega sport bolters, illegal ascents, and chopping trees for a better view have become much more common and even accepted. We have to find a balance.

This is my viewpoint, I respect anyone that makes the conscious choice to do the right thing.

 

You can be a bad ass, and a poster child for the crags and the environment, many climbers follow this route and live under the radar doing the right thing where ever they go.

 

Thanks for your time and lets work together to keep our community respected and respectful.

 

Dave

 

 

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when unsure, i ask meself:

 

What Would Warren Harding Do? :)

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In these days of dwindling resources and increasing population, climbing has become "popular" and crowds at the crags have multiplied massively...Groups such as Access Fund and a few local groups around the country work with land managers to find a balance that will allow us to keep on climbing. Their message is to be respectful and law abiding to each other and the non climbing community in order to keep the crags open and the ecosystems that surround them, protected...Climb hard, crank the rad, be Extreme is the mantra for all the teens entering the climbing world today, numbers are king, 5.15, V15...etc.

Our resources are limited and looking at the impact of folks today from the "Pad people" to the mega sport bolters, illegal ascents, and chopping trees for a better view have become much more common and even accepted. We have to find a balance.

This is my viewpoint, I respect anyone that makes the conscious choice to do the right thing."

 

Well-stated, Bro! But unfortunately, nobody agrees on what "the right thing is." For example, I'd be delighted if the dominant paradigm of "sport climbing", (with it's assumption that anything climbable on public or even private land can be permanently altered for one's own amusement), would acknowledge its outrageous impact and just stop. For me, that's an obvious ethical conclusion. Clearly many involved don't see it that way and as they commonly feel threatened by such an opinion, you can expect that the "community" will piss on you for even bringing up the fact that some of what they do might be in any way environmentally and/or ethically dubious. Climbers, the self-styled guardians of the environment, are often the worst offenders...but then again....what is the definition of a climber in the year 2015?? Anyone who goes to REI and buys a pair of rock shoes and a gym membership? And then perhaps "progresses" to something not much different, but outdoors, at a convenient grid-bolted sport crag? Are they even taught that there are alternate or contrary opinions on the subject? Land managers have every reason to be suspicious of climbers! As much as I've enjoyed climbing, I'm embarrassed by a lot of what goes on.

 

Today....even bouldering....once considered the minimalist approach to recreational ascent....is now a sport for the masses And denuded surroundings, over-chalked routes (which solve the mysteries for you) and lots of garbage, and rodent-chewed crash-pads stowed by the lazy, are not uncommon. The Access Fund has an uphill battle if they want to convince non-climbers that what's going on is just fine. Why? Because it ain't just fine...and people, especially non-climbers, are figuring that out.

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Left click on the name, left click on trip reports, evaluate what this persons opinion is worth.

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Left click on the name, left click on trip reports, evaluate what this persons opinion is worth.

 

Maybe, or maybe not. Another apparent requirement of today's climber is to post, or it never happened. Frankly, the me, me, me, look at me is a bit tiresome. Oh, and you can see more of me on this link to my blog, my Facebook, twitter, or my Instagram postings.

 

I used to post climbing odds and ends but rarely do now - am I really providing any useful information - who the hell care about some 60 year old guy getting up another moderate Cascade route. I enjoy seeing the put-ups by folks like Freih or Ivan's occasional aid routes (never gonna do that!). But most of the blah, blah, blah, look at what I did this weekend is what it is. Judging someone via their trip posts? Sigh.

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Unfortunately the only chances old farts like many of the people posting here had to change the "future of climbing" (whatever that is) was to procreate and raise children with certain ideals or to become respected in the community enough to influence the next crop even slightly.

 

Kids are going to do what they want. They are going to listen to rock'n'roll really loud, they are going to get it on in the back of the car, they are going to rebel and carve their own unique path. Mistakes are going to be made, and things will evolve for better or for worse.

 

Old people will still look at it as all being "worse" because old people don't like change. And when those old people die, their norms will die with them and the next generation will have their own definition of right and wrong. Obviously I'm not talking about life or death ethics here...but everything else including what you think is OK for someone to do with a purely for pleasure pursuit isn't even in that realm.

 

Your rant about how the kids have got it all wrong may resonate someday down the road when bell bottoms come back into style. But not so much right now. What I find strange is that supposedly smart and experienced people don't recognize this. But I guess old people have been yelling at the youth to get off their lawn forever.

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Everyone has I preference I suppose - I've met plenty of youngsters in the local hills or climbing in Europe and S.A. that I'd give a thumbs up to. Then again, they seemed more interested in actually doing things than reporting about it.

 

To each their own.

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Ha...even the "report it (in a journal or on the Internet) or not" thing is cyclical. There is something to be said for either. Without the desire to share experiences this site would not exist. And to say that only the elite should report...well that just sounds a little elitist.

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Ha...even the "report it (in a journal or on the Internet) or not" thing is cyclical. There is something to be said for either. Without the desire to share experiences this site would not exist. And to say that only the elite should report...well that just sounds a little elitist.

 

Not to belabor a point - but I didn't say anything about "elite" postings. Let's not turn this into another sprayfest. I'll leave it at this - the inundation of media has indeed changed how we obtain information on climibing/skiing - sometimes this is good - other times it seems folks want a breadcrumb trail.

 

But, IMHO - the "experience sharing" often times feels like less of that and more of "I'm awesome, look what I did" -- The availability of the options for self promotion (see my link to my webpage, etc) are quite endless these days.

 

And you are correct - without that driver this website wouldn't exist. But in the grand scheme of things, besides some revenue streaming, it wouldn't matter much would it?

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I like pictures, especially good ones. Keep those TRs coming everyone!

 

Wicked sporto routes too (sorry Dawg). You guys should check out Leclerc's Insta feed, he's been climbing some cool limestone over in Europe.

 

There is a big difference between posting/sharing, and chest beating.... at least in my opinion.

 

And J4, don't feed the beast!

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And you are correct - without that driver this website wouldn't exist. But in the grand scheme of things, besides some revenue streaming, it wouldn't matter much would it?

 

 

You had a comment about enjoying the more notable TRs but not needing the lesser reports in another thread in another forum.

 

Anyone is free to ignore this website and live oblivious to the climbing antics of others. Many do this, I'm sure.

Personally, I'm inspired and love reading TRs even at the cost of putting up with a chestbeater every once in a while.

 

"experience sharing" often times feels like less of that and more of "I'm awesome, look what I did"
Perhaps this is your experience, but it certainly isn't mine. The majority of the TRs here have been well done and ego free, in my opinion.

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virtually all tr's on this site could use more pictures of scantily clad crag bunnies :)

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JasonG, I'll try to restrain myself. I have a hard time with shades of gray, black and white is easy.

 

I too like TRs with pictures, I save a lot of them to my screensaver on my work computer so I can stare at mountains during the week. I also tend to post more TRs during the winter months when conditions are variable and make a difference to safety or satisfaction. I don't do anything worthy of note.

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Judging someone via their trip posts? Sigh.

Sorry I was in a hurry this morning. I left off read a few of them. Then evaluate what their opinion might be worth. Usually I feel a lot more empathy for the authors afterward. But people who have zero trs? They could be a slumlord in NYC that's never been more than 10 blocks away from their apartment. If they don't want to share what we come here for why should we listen to their rants?

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For fuck sakes, just go climbing and enjoy it. Talking about impacts: you are driving a friggin car on a paved road, emitting mass pollution, use gear produce with huge amount of resources, in a lot situation produced with child labor in some third world country, and you are talking about "doing the right thing"? WTF?!

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For fuck sakes, just go climbing and enjoy it. Talking about impacts: you are driving a friggin car on a paved road, emitting mass pollution, use gear produce with huge amount of resources, in a lot situation produced with child labor in some third world country, and you are talking about "doing the right thing"? WTF?!

 

virtually all tr's on this site could use more pictures of scantily clad crag bunnies :)

 

Hear, hear.

 

Just climb, bros. Annd don't forget pix of your hawt GFs

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For fuck sakes, just go climbing and enjoy it. Talking about impacts: you are driving a friggin car on a paved road, emitting mass pollution, use gear produce with huge amount of resources, in a lot situation produced with child labor in some third world country, and you are talking about "doing the right thing"? WTF?!

 

There's no reason you can't, at the same time, be as environmentally conscious as possible. Sure the modern first world existence has impact, but there's no reason it can't be minimized as much as practically possible.

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Well traveled and/or "famous" climbers have the responsibility to set examples for the up and coming generation and to the non climbing public. Climb hard, crank the rad, be Extreme is the mantra for all the teens entering the climbing world today, numbers are king, 5.15, V15...etc.

 

This has got to be the most overused and tired cliche since the first ascent of the Matterhorn. Am I right or am I right? :laf:

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I'm pretty sure ancient Romans hassled gladiators for not setting a good example either. When it comes to human nature, there is definitely nothing new under the sun.

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should we even want to push kids to climb 5.15? seems like you need a raging eating disorder to make that grade :)

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For fuck sakes, just go climbing and enjoy it. Talking about impacts: you are driving a friggin car on a paved road, emitting mass pollution, use gear produce with huge amount of resources, in a lot situation produced with child labor in some third world country, and you are talking about "doing the right thing"? WTF?!

 

There's no reason you can't, at the same time, be as environmentally conscious as possible. Sure the modern first world existence has impact, but there's no reason it can't be minimized as much as practically possible.

 

Minimizing impact as much as practically possible would eliminate climbing. There really is no practical requirement for any of us to climb anything. We can get everything we need to "live" without leaving a city.

 

Once you determine that climbing is an acceptable activity and is justified then everything beyond that is very gray.

 

People have an impact on the environment. Mutual respect would go a lot further than some arbitrary lines drawn over what is acceptable and what is damaging.

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For fuck sakes, just go climbing and enjoy it. Talking about impacts: you are driving a friggin car on a paved road, emitting mass pollution, use gear produce with huge amount of resources, in a lot situation produced with child labor in some third world country, and you are talking about "doing the right thing"? WTF?!

 

There's no reason you can't, at the same time, be as environmentally conscious as possible. Sure the modern first world existence has impact, but there's no reason it can't be minimized as much as practically possible.

 

So you are driving a friggin car, on a paved road, use electricity created from dammed rivers or cole, but you are worrying about impact of a few bolts? Sure, I try to avoid shitting on every ledge, or leaving plastic from Gu packages, but fuck sakes let's keep things in some logical perspective.

And let's not forget that initial poster wrote it as another cheap shot, shitty-self righteous jab after Dean Potter death.

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