MrGecko Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 A general Portland vicinity rebolting effort is under way and during a session at Ozone these anchors were discovered on the route called The Crumbling as well as used for top anchors on the route Meth Rage. These are lag bolts and from what we can tell were driven into a drilled hole as is. This is why education regarding bolting is important. Anyone can basically buy a drill and start assembling a sport route with little to no instruction. Others think they can save a few dollars here and there but in the end its your neck that is hung on the line or maybe placed in a cast if not worse. Support your local rebolting efforts with the ASCA but donating. A month's gym membership fee would be a good donation amount. Be safe out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Wow, how much does that route get climbed? Edited March 23, 2015 by Bronco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 the anchor bolts on meth rage are the least of that route's problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzack Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 WTF!? Who does this!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 people w/ drills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanman Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Actually those are Hilti coil anchors. There is a coiled spring at the back of the hole. They are quite a bit stronger than wedgies even in the corroded condition. A couple years ago I did a series of ff2 dynamic with a 300 lb weight and 15kn static pulls on a whole route full of em. No issues whatsoever for the 12 year old applications . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Actually those are Hilti coil anchors. There is a coiled spring at the back of the hole. They are quite a bit stronger than wedgies even in the corroded condition. A couple years ago I did a series of ff2 dynamic with a 300 lb weight and 15kn static pulls on a whole route full of em. No issues whatsoever for the 12 year old applications . Could actually be a poor choice given that Hilti disclaims use outside interior conditions https://www.us.hilti.com/anchor-systems/screw-anchors/r228 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGecko Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Actually those are Hilti coil anchors. There is a coiled spring at the back of the hole. They are quite a bit stronger than wedgies even in the corroded condition. A couple years ago I did a series of ff2 dynamic with a 300 lb weight and 15kn static pulls on a whole route full of em. No issues whatsoever for the 12 year old applications . It sounds like you are bolting with these Hanman? What route was that and where? Can you provide more information on your test setup, the rock type and age of these anchors etc. We didn't find any coils in the holes and after 1/2 turn these slipped out by hand. Hilti recommends them for non permanent installations and indoor conditions. -Fastening braces to support tilt-up and formwork - Non-specified, temporary fastenings Please do not bolt with non stainless steel equipment and follow the current ASCA practices and recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
num1mc Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Hanman is a knowledgeable and expert bolter and industrial hygenist, but this demonstrates how much the current thinking about drilled anchors can change. I think these can be strong anchors, but I don't think they are the ultimate yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Actually those are Hilti coil anchors. There is a coiled spring at the back of the hole. They are quite a bit stronger than wedgies even in the corroded condition. A couple years ago I did a series of ff2 dynamic with a 300 lb weight and 15kn static pulls on a whole route full of em. No issues whatsoever for the 12 year old applications . It sounds like you are bolting with these Hanman? What route was that and where? Can you provide more information on your test setup, the rock type and age of these anchors etc. We didn't find any coils in the holes and after 1/2 turn these slipped out by hand. Hilti recommends them for non permanent installations and indoor conditions. -Fastening braces to support tilt-up and formwork - Non-specified, temporary fastenings Please do not bolt with non stainless steel equipment and follow the current ASCA practices and recommendations. Just because you did not find the coil in the hole does not mean they were not in there. I am an eye witness to those bolts being placed. They had a coil sleeve..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 the anchor bolts on meth rage are the least of that route's problems Lol.....ivan....the only other person I know to climb Meth Rage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Hanman is a knowledgeable and expert bolter and industrial hygenist So is the guy who put up the crumbling and placed these bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 This disturbs me, if you can't afford to put in proper bolts, don't do it. This seems to be borderline negligent given all the easily available information out there about proper bolts and hangers. Once they go in the climber has now way of knowing what is actually in the rock. So glad I don't climb at ozone very often, this is scary to think about. I salute your rebolting efforts and ask that whomever put those bolts in or anyone that has knowledge of other routes that have these pieces of shit in them to come forward. Bryan Schmitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCramer Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Here's an interesting thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=374939&tn=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksportn Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 As the guy that pulled most of those bolts out of the The Crumbling, I personally wouldn't trust those bolts. Very easily loosened and then they basically fell out. One pulled completely out (a bolt placed on an overhang) and was replaced a couple years ago. The brand and style of these bolts were discovered two weeks ago when the 2nd bolt loosened on a fall, and then pulled out by hand. That's two failures on one route in a few years time span. That doesn't equate to safe bolts in anyone's world... (I hope). I replaced all of the bolts on the Crumbling this past week after that. At best, testing has confirmed that these bolts are marginal at best, with random strength rating, and that they are difficult to place correctly for maximum strength. I was talking with Greg Barnes from the ASCA, and he says "they are not appropriate for climbing an any circumstances, regardless of strength." I can understand that they may have been the better choice a long time ago (20+ years ago) but it's time to stop defending them as adequate bolts for new routes.. They don't even come in stainless steel as far as I can tell, which should the minimum requirement in our area... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Beckerich Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 So glad I don't climb at ozone very often, this is scary to think about. So glad I trad. Screw this crap. At least I'm too scared to fall on my own gear - you're supposed to be able to whip fearlessly on bolts, but crap like this proves you can't trust anything. Except gravity and Murphy - count on both of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhound Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Steve says it pretty well on the SP post: "EVERYBODY STOP WASTING TIME AND EFFORT PLACING MILD STEEL BOLTS! Stainless Steel is the only responsible option if you want to do lasting, quality bolt work. Cheapness is no real excuse here, think about it. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGecko Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Actually those are Hilti coil anchors. There is a coiled spring at the back of the hole. They are quite a bit stronger than wedgies even in the corroded condition. A couple years ago I did a series of ff2 dynamic with a 300 lb weight and 15kn static pulls on a whole route full of em. No issues whatsoever for the 12 year old applications . It sounds like you are bolting with these Hanman? What route was that and where? Can you provide more information on your test setup, the rock type and age of these anchors etc. We didn't find any coils in the holes and after 1/2 turn these slipped out by hand. Hilti recommends them for non permanent installations and indoor conditions. -Fastening braces to support tilt-up and formwork - Non-specified, temporary fastenings Please do not bolt with non stainless steel equipment and follow the current ASCA practices and recommendations. Just because you did not find the coil in the hole does not mean they were not in there. I am an eye witness to those bolts being placed. They had a coil sleeve..... Kev, sounds like you were there when Josh put those in and it looks like that coil is integral to the function of the bolt, what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 The old coil bolt looks like a lag bolt, a grade 5 zinc plated lag bolt. If it had a coil originally it's obviously not working now. The new replacement also looks like a zinc plated mild steel bolt. The chains are zinc and the color matches. Give it 10 years and you won't trust it because of rust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGecko Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 The old coil bolt looks like a lag bolt, a grade 5 zinc plated lag bolt. If it had a coil originally it's obviously not working now. The new replacement also looks like a zinc plated mild steel bolt. The chains are zinc and the color matches. Give it 10 years and you won't trust it because of rust. Buck, the image you are looking at is both the original bolts and the original MadRock SS hangers not the replacements. Replacements look like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.