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Usage at CC.com in decline


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I read through this whole thread to make sure I didn't repeat something that was already said. After all this is the Spray forum and like Spionin, I have seen people mocked for spelling errors or just trying to be helpful. I have the "insiders club" perception that Raindawg mentioned but that isn't the reason for my CC.com hiatus.


Recovering from motorcycle accident(s), Grad school, new job, and developing cubicle chuncks have kept me from climbing. My renewed interest in CC.com comes from setting a goal to go to Alaska and I value the beta here.


As far as improvements go, Layton's suggestion about adding meta data tags or reorganizing the TR into a heirarchy by location/route would be helpful.


Thank you Jon for not selling out. I understand that this service you guys provide is a labor of love. Improvements to the site come at a cost, which require revenue streams. Soliciting feedback and acting on it will keep CC.com relevant to the community.


The internet trolls are all on twitter now. Just search "tcot" and you will see the most ignorant and hateful statements directed at other Americans all within 140 characters.



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We appreciate the feedback. For those who wish to give it in a more anonymous form feel free to use out contact form here http://cascadeclimbers.com/contact/


This is our 13th year of CC.com. And the world has changed a lot since then. I don’t want to sound like I have my head in the sand, but I see cc.com surviving right now, not necessarily dying. That doesn’t mean there aren’t things we can improve here, there are tons as there always have been.

But consider this: 2006-7 was our peak usage
. The iPhone was just released. Facebook and Twitter were infants.


Since then there has been a war for your attention, and now it has moved from your desktop to your phone, and now it's moving to your other devices (Pebbles, FitBits, Netflix etc). There are billions of dollars being pumped into these companies who’s sole purpose is to compete for your time, content, money, and become integral to your lives. So, it’s remarkable in a way that we are still here.


Are posts down? Yes. Are pageviews down? Yes. Are visits by core return visitors down? Not so much. So while people are not posting, they are still reading in droves. I don’t want to sound like I’m not disappointed this has happened, because I am, but I’m also realistic about the above, and take some solace in the fact our traffic is such that we’d likely survive financially even if nobody was posting. Being self sufficient financially was a goal from the start.


Something that did happen this year is in the last 12ish months we have had 3 offers to buy cc.com. We turned away all of them, mainly because none where in the best interest of the community and your content.. We are in this for the long haul.


Moving forward I will add a better photo uploading capability; you guys deserve it. Whether we abandon the photo gallery or not is up in the air. In the next couple months we’ll have some clarity on which forum solution we will be moving to, which will be much more modern then what we have now, and will have a great mobile experience.


I’ll have more a bit later.

the hieght of the infinite bliss rant :crazy:
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I think my own experience is probably similar to alot of folks:


climbing used to be my life. i had an (easier) job, free time, no financial committments. i had several of my own climbing related web sites, blogger, and then cc.com arrived and honestly 12+ years ago UBB was pretty slick and made doing your own custom html 4.0 unneccesary. i had enough time to even moderate this site and write a friggin climbing guide for petes sake!! And I climbed alot!!


Now my job has morphed into something far more stressful, im married, have 2 kids, have scary financial commits, have been hardcore into other activities other than climbing going on 10+ years, hang out on facebook alot more than BBS sites, and just frankly dont get out much or have much time. I recently got a climbing gym membership and discovered my last one was in 2007! Yikes! And most of my climbing partners are the same. Alot of them have found new passions: alot are kite boarding, mountain biking, or doing whatnot. Some of the hardest climbers I know are not climbing now. Or very rarely, just with friends, just for grins. After I had kids I also discovered climbing was a lonely activity compared to family life, or social things like sailing, and now I seek out things where I can include my family, rather than use my increasingly limited free time for a Banff trip or Bugaboos trip. This November I had the amazing fortune to take my family on their first ocean crossing! So cool!


I honestly also lurk alot more, just because I dont feel I have much to contribute that is relevant. Now, if you wanted to jaw about ocean racing, we could do that, but most people would find it weird. So what Jon says it true for me: I am still here and still read, but very rarely log in.



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I'm a relatively new user here. I just started climbing two years ago and moved back to the PNW then too so I have no concept of what it used to be like. I guess I'm guilty of posting TR's that are photo-less little conditions reports and just linking to my blog. I guess sometimes I feel like my trips aren't super cool and climbers are more interested in some basic beta and conditions. Plus I also post to share with friends and family who don't come to cc.com. I guess what I want from the site is a way to connect with and tap into the collective knowledge of the greater alpine climbing community in this part of the world, possibly meet mentors and other like minded people, and learn as much as possible. Sure I check twit and facebook, etc. but I would rather read a good TR any day, even if it's a blog. But I will keep that in mind and try post more photos and story, especially if that's what you all want to hear.



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I love hearing what people on here do other than climbing (as well as hearing about the climbing ;) ).


For me it is currently (outdoor pursuits, not just "being a Baseball Dad") in order:


1. Mountain biking (my primary other thing)

2. Hiking/backpacking

3. Sailing (just getting into this a bit)

4. road biking (haven't been doing this one in a bit)


I guess running is the top thing, but I just do it to stay in shape.

And of course photography which pairs with all of the above.



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As a long time lurker and extremely rare poster, I love coming to read the TR's here. I'm not a very good climber, and tend to hike/backpack more than climb (along with a laundry list of other activities), but enjoy the very few climbs I do a few times a year, which is more due to lack of partners. (guess i should find new partners)


I personally enjoy seeing pictures and reports of any kind. I don't mind if there is a blog link, but a short post with a few pictures needs to be here for me to want to go to your link usually. I certainly hope reports continue to be posted, and when I do get out on a climb I'll try and contribute what I can. I think for most people (me included) we figure the easier or less exciting climbs aren't worth posting about here as they don't measure up to some of the amazing trips and expeditions some people go on.

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One thing everyone of you can do to make this better is to put a filter on everything you post. Keep in mind that the more people who post Trip Reports here, the better it can be. Make this an environment where people are not afraid to share. It doesn't mean taking all the fun out of being a part of CC.com...its more about being decent to one another. Its about not doing online what you wouldn't do in a crowded room of strangers.


You DON'T have to be a great climber to post a trip report here. Heck, you don't even need to succeed. There have been some great TRs about failure. Sometimes just a picture or two about conditions in a particular area can be so valuable to the next guy.


Everyone needs stoke, from the best climbers to those who are just starting out. Don't be afraid to be honest about your capabilities. You are not a terrible person because you struggle with 5.9 climbing. We are all at different points on our climbing experience. This site should be for everyone, not just the really good climbers.


Yes, there are those TR connoisseurs who only think the best TRs should be posted, but don't count us who run the site as one of them. I love the super awe inspiring TRs put up by some of our users, but I also love hearing about someone just getting out and pushing themselves from where ever they are at.

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Write up your TR in your voice in a way that suites you, throw some heart into it, and all will be well. The objective or your skill level isn't anywhere near the whole story.


There was a recent TR about some high altitude climbing - really spectacular stuff - but the photo/caption I remember the most from it was a pic of a guy dancing with a goat with the proscription "Don't judge" underneath. That could have been a TR about the Tooth and it still would have been just as funny.


You never know what part of your story is going to hit home with readers, but if it hits home with you, that's the most important thing.


I think you'll find that the process of crafting a TR is also a means to savor and gain insight into the experience you've just had.

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Some people shift gears all together. I have become super focused on fly fishing, as much as I was about climbing 28 years ago. Natural shifting in conjunction with the facebook/twitter/instagram thing will have an effect. At least I have one other crossover cc.com'er posting at Washingtonflyfishing.com

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I like the non-PNW or off the beaten path stuff the most. Ideas of what else is out there to try. Eg. Wayne’s desert stuff, therunningdog’s international stuff (NW China write up is classic), etc. Would be good to see more southwest posts from Layton (things like Notch Peak; the old Castle Dome tr -another classic). More local - Ivan’s stuff like Penis Lunch Wall & Tombstone, Dru’s old Snootley Express write up. John Frieh’s Sawtooths from way back when; etc. Some of these are one of a kind on the web. Would be good to see more of that.

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perhaps we need a "freak power foundation grant" for discordant dyspeptic dipshits like meself? this whole "i have a job" thing sure puts a crimp in my wanderings n' crusades :)


and X2 on the outside the cascades thing - i like the local stuff as the bedrock that made me move here, but for special trips you'll always gotta wander further appeal - holy shit, never would have thought jordan or morocco or quite a # of other places folks have done tr's for could look so titilating :P

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I was a lurker for years, and I've been a member for only a couple years. Was recently having a conversation with some fellow mediocre climbers, and here are some thoughts:


1) User experience: the forums need responsive design to handle mobile and tablet viewing. A mobile app isn't necessary if the site design is responsive, and most people won't use a mobile app. Need to migrate from UBB sooner rather than later to stem the death of the site. Main landing page of the site is great with new redesign, but needs the same applied to the forums.


2) Insider club. Spray overflowing into reasonable conversations, perception of getting criticized for asking questions or posting lame TRs of simple climbs. Old boys club.


3) "Competitors" have a few advantages, whether its: more general scope, better user experience, more welcoming to noobs, wider reach, etc: summitpost.org, mountainproject.com, TGR (not noob friendly though), nwhikers.net (more friendly/inviting environment), not to mention blogs, social media, etc. I might even get criticized for suggesting these places are better in some regards, which would just reaffirm #2. :)


I like CC and will still visit here occasionally, but I think the above are valid reasons.

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Thanks Sean.


#1 has been one Jon and I have recognized for years . We are really just trying to get it right...moving to new forum software is a lot of work and we only want to do it once. Believe me, we can't wait to get off UBB and on to something more modern. We have some options, but really I think we just need to commit to one and go for it.


#2 This is what I meant in my post above. We all need to work to make this place more inviting to new comers or just new posters. We need to work to make it a place that people want to post and interact with. Part of that really is on each one of you. You have to recognize when you're discouraging others from participating. There is no "insider club" here. But that perception is there because some people make it seem like that with how they interact with others. If you don't know someone, go out of your way to make them welcome! Thats part of why I want to do more pubclubs. To get people together and make them feel welcome here. Especially people who haven't participated to date...I'd love to hear from you. Your participation leads to new motivation, new friends, and new adventures, which is what I think draws most of us here. It doesn't matter if you're coming from, its where you are going.


This site is about socializing, people need to stop farting and clearing the room with caustic and argumentative discussions. Stop attacking people asking questions, who are just trying to learn. Nobody wants that. There is always a place for criticism, but you don't need to show the Internet that you are the smartest guy in the room....how about being the nicest guy in the room and kindly providing and assistance to someone who is newer to the "sport" than you are. Invite that person to go out climbing with you if you know better than they do, and teach them.


I learned to rock climb from people on this site, because they were kind enough to respond to my noob questions and followed it up with an invite to go climbing with them (or maybe I asked them, but bottom line was they were nice to me). Yeah, I'm still not a great climber now, but I'm a safe one...its on me for not being better by putting in more time.



#3 There will always be competitors for your time. But I think all of them lack the uniqueness that this site offers. This site has a lot more character, and yes it does have warts too. But the goal Jon and I have always had is to keep it going and improve it as we can, while maintaining the uniqueness and some of the character. Unfortunately sometimes that progress gets slowed as this isn't our day job.


Thanks Sean, we appreciate your feedback and hope you keep coming back. We'll try to keep the lights on.




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Olyclimber, thanks for your reply. I work in software and understand your hesitancy to jump ship and migrate to a new platform. It's simply a lot of work and there are lots of choices to make. Doing a quick search, there's got to be something better than a phpBB responsive theme (the top results)... at least I'd hope that we've evolved beyond that by now.


CC definitely has its place and I appreciate the conversation here, even when it deviates a bit. Thanks for your and Jon's work!

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