Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
kurthicks

Upcoming Snoqualmie Valley Rock Guidebook

Recommended Posts

It has been 7 years since the last update to the Exit 38/32 books. With Garth's support, I am working on a new, comprehensive edition that should be out around next December (maybe sooner). It's time now to add in all of the new lines that have gone up in the last seven years (or any climb that went unrecorded previously). I'll put out a request for photos sometime in the future.

 

So right now, I'm looking for this beta from anywhere in the North Bend area (32,38, rattlesnake, fun forest, etc):

--new walls

--new routes

--unrecorded first ascent information

 

Send me an email or PM with your beta.

Thanks!

kurthicksATgmail.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:Let me bring up some history here, in the late 90's a dude named Garth befriended some of the local route setters and after stealing/plagiarizing there beta come out with a guide book in his name only, and than come out with more guide books with bad beta and not even mentioning the first accentionist, Garth hardly put up any routes and deleted the first accent list(they are not his routes) and gave no acknowledgment for the plagiarized beta. :battlecage:

One of the local route setters has been working on a comprehensive guide to SNO VALLY with areas/routes that have been up for a decade and have not seen the internet to keep the beta from being ripped off.

So any guide book for SNO VALLY without a shared authorship and/or acknowledgment and first accentionist list and the approval of the climbing community is a blatant beta/guide RIPOFF

The only reward for a route setter for his hard work and money is acknowledgment and respect and when you have been climbing for awhile you will learn that first accent list will tell you the quality, runout or style of the climb, I happened to be a groupie of the good ones.

Sorry if I offended anyone but it is what it is!:

Don't shoot the messenger :wave:

Edited by LUCKY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me bring up some history here, in the late 90's a dude named Garth befriended some of the local route setters and after stealing/plagiarizing there beta come out with a guide book in his name only, and than come out with more guide books with bad beta and not even mentioning the first accentionist, Garth hardly put up any routes deleted the first accent list( they are not his routes) and paid no royalty's for the plagiarized beta

One of the local route setters has been working on a comprehensive guide to SNO VALLY with areas/routes that have been up for a decade and have not seen the internet to keep the beta from being ripped off.

So any guide book for SNO VALLY without a shared authorship and royalties and first accentionist list and the approval of the climbing community is a blatant beta/guide RIPOFF

Sorry if I offended anyone but it is what it is!

 

Lucky, by your logic Fred Beckey should have to pay "royalties" to every first ascensionist in his trilogy. :rolleyes: Basically, I think you don't understand the difference between research and plagiarism. And since the latter is a serious accusation, you may want to tone it down just a bit. FWIW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kurt, don't listen to LUCKY. I appreciate any work you do to update the guidebook and don't care about FA's and royalties. I think it's stupid to make any big deal about it. I speak for the weekend bolt climbers I think when I say I'm grateful for any kind of beta. Even if it's handed down/passed on. So, don't lose heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:battlecage: AHHH WHO CARES....I can be a little irascible :rolleyes: at times Edited by LUCKY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lucky, you're being a little too obtuse for me, I know you're trying not to name names, but I just don't know my scuttlebutt and slander well enough to fill in the blanks about who had their feelings hurt by whom, and what grudges have endured for 20 years.

 

If someone is working on a new Sno Valley guidebook, but being all secretive about it and only sharing info with their inner clique, they really don't have much grounds to complain if someone else takes on the same project, since to the casual observer the field is wide open.

 

Dueling guidebook authors is kind of a weird situation too, witness that it takes three different guides to fully cover Banks Lake. I guess that's four if you want to throw Washington Ice into the mix.

 

Old guidebooks are funny that way, they tend to become reference materials and form the foundation for new books. Paying royalties? C'mon, you know a few guidebook authors, how rich and famous has their work made them? Back in the seventies I wrote a guidebook that I know has had info recycled, since stuff that I just flat out made up is now the standard nomenclature for a bunch of routes and climbing areas. Do you mean all those people owe me money? Do you know a lawyer who will take on my case on spec?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Off_White for clearly stating what I was trying to say. I think the community appreciates any beta. Competing guide books? Bring it on! I'll try to use all the info I can get and then make good decisions. Could you imagine trying to track down people and get them to buy off to create a NEW guidebook? It would take forever and may never happen. I think it's the right approach - the data needs to be updated, Kurt is a stand up guy, he will give respect. I think he simply wants to give back to a great community. That's why he asked the previous author and is working on WARP. Good stuff. Keep it up Kurt!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the intention that Kurt sets out with, I get it. All these different books, lots of new action, update the old...an all inclusive Sno Valley Rock Guide.

But it is real that guidebooks don't always make an area more accessible/safe, or give accurate beta, or consistent ratings, or proper respect to those who set routes, and many times an author does just take info and paste it in a book and doesn't give FA info and even changes the beta or ratings that they solicited from the route developer/FA in the first place..!!!

 

If I were writing a biography and the person I'm writing it on doesn't give me their blessing then why the F would I still write it?

 

I dunno, if a route developer or circle of locals who work at developing a crag want to keep it off the internet or out of a guide book then that is their choice. Doesn't matter how nice a guy an author is, how great it is for bumblys to have 2 or 3 books to get the best beta from, doesn't matter if anyone disagrees over who got butt hurt and if that's a valid feeling to have or not. What matters is the wishes and preferences of a developer and/or FA are respected, and credited where due. And I'm pretty sure route developers ain't in it for the money !!! I don't think that's what LUCKY is saying at all.

 

I actually appreciate LUCKY bringing some history to the discussion because history usually is F*d up, so it would be GREAT to NOT repeat just another guidebook that either sucks or is a center for climber drama.

 

And to Off White- maybe Marlene will take your case....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The only reward for a route setter, for his hard work and money is acknowledgment and respect and when you have been climbing for awhile you will learn that the first accent list will tell you the quality, runout or style of the climb, I happened to be a groupie of the good ones.

 

Check out a Beckey guide, FA BETA and REFERENCES to BETA from other Books.

 

I am not a Black Belt Internet Spraymaster so I can be irascible and not to political correct with the keyboard.

 

Don't shoot the messenger :wave:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm. I am a "route setter" too, and I never created routes for any kind of acknowledgement, actually. Some of the routes I put up, in hindsight, were kind of mediochre. Some were pretty good. I got to climb all of them first, with my friends, and open new venues to our own exploration without the crowds. Then we moved on. That was my reward.

 

If some of my routes make the new guidebook, cool. If they don't, I honestly don't f'ing care. If my name is associated with them or not, I never drilled a bolt or did an FA for anyone to know about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Several people were wronged by Garth on the old books, but that's water under the bridge. It looks like Kurt is going forward with a new, much-needed guide. More power to him.

 

Route developers and others with detailed knowledge basically have two options:

 

1 - Share info with the author. You might help correct some errors in old guides, transmit good info on new routes, and contribute FA and other information for a new guide.

 

2 - Don't share info with the author. In this case, he'll go around and figure out what he can on his own and from others. There's a good chance some of what gets published will be wrong and incomplete.

 

I've chosen #1.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

option #3 Climb/hang or put up routes with the locals of the North West, climb and compare routes, share beta, be respectful, run into them at the crag, UHMMM there has been guide Books in the NW That....I have to hurry up and make sure my mega classic gets into the new guide, hope they put in the pic of my heal hook dyno to a mono doit....well you know what I mean.

 

A guide book is more than the bumbly look'n for the 5.5 or the hard man look'n for the 5.14 test piece, it's history, route style(First Accent list).....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's get back to the subject at hand. What other crags need to be added? How about that otter falls climb in the middle fork? How about fun forest? There are some new climbs at deception crags off the tressel and up a trail to the left of the deception wall. Also heard about "the Shakespeare wall but don't know where it is.

+1 for fee demo and Shang gri la

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

 

Quick update here—The project is coming along nicely. All of the crags mentioned in this thread are going to be included and hopefully a few more. Also included will be historical info and as comprehensive of a first ascent list as is possible. It's a surprisingly large project given that the current route tally is somewhere around 600 and growing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Way to persevere! There is a lot of great content in this guide, including new routes and history around old ones.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×