OlegV Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) I would like to start a new discussion by making a bold and scientifically reasonable statement: sport routes destroy the mountains as they accelerate erosion. Because sport climbing routes typically involve very closely spaced bolts, it is reasonable to assume that a single-file line of bolts created micro-fractures in the rock face. Any pros and cons? Stay calm. Edited October 22, 2013 by OlegV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryographer Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I wouldn't give the fractures in the face much thought, but the hordes of people clearly has made an impact in just about every climbing area I've seen. The rapid erosion seems to affect the drier climates more. Case in point Bbq the Pope. But it isn't selective to sport climbing only, Ltown bouldering has seen some terrible impact at some relatively new areas. Whaddyagonnado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 cracks are lines of weakness in the rock climbing cracks increases their widening leading to massive rock failure along climbed cracks... case in point, mickey's beach crack now mickey's beach arete trad is harder on rock than sport is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 cracks are lines of weakness in the rock climbing cracks increases their widening leading to massive rock failure along climbed cracks... case in point, mickey's beach crack now mickey's beach arete trad is harder on rock than sport is. Dru is right, this guy is soooo TRAD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) Oleg, you are one thick headed human being. My God, take a hint already and take a break. Your last posting fiasco was completely self inflicted, despite prior warnings not to go there. I'm saying this as a friend. Cheerist. Edited October 22, 2013 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I wouldn't give the fractures in the face much thought, but the hordes of people clearly has made an impact in just about every climbing area I've seen. The rapid erosion seems to affect the drier climates more. Case in point Bbq the Pope. But it isn't selective to sport climbing only, Ltown bouldering has seen some terrible impact at some relatively new areas. Whaddyagonnado? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 nothing more ironic than an irishman telling a russki to think clearly most of the erosion from sport-climbing comes from the parking lot, bridge, trail, etc. that it takes to get you to the base - but who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 nothing more ironic than an irishman telling a russki to think clearly most of the erosion from sport-climbing comes from the parking lot, bridge, trail, etc. that it takes to get you to the base - but who cares? Yakov Smirnoff is not Irish and neither am I. Who cares? I, among others, care. Putting up a sport climb attracts crowds like flies to dung. Except the dung doesn't go away...it's been permanently installed....and the flies keep comin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Driving to Smith from Portland is probably the worst environmental offense, if that's the concern. Best stick to Rocky Butte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 nothing more ironic than an irishman telling a russki to think clearly most of the erosion from sport-climbing comes from the parking lot, bridge, trail, etc. that it takes to get you to the base - but who cares? Yakov Smirnoff is not Irish and neither am I. Who cares? I, among others, care. Putting up a sport climb attracts crowds like flies to dung. Except the dung doesn't go away...it's been permanently installed....and the flies keep comin'! wasnt' talking to you - you managed to sneak yer post in a few seconds afore me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 reckon this is my Q for a) calling somebody a narcissist, b) attempti to convince a stranger that i do, indeed, hail fron an ancestry that neither one of us cares about, c) staunchly defend a POV in a thread that is nonsense, or d). Big Man, i got free weekends - take a break from the bolt warz n lets go catch a fucking salmon in my kayak. got the particulars all werkd courtesy of one fine gentleman iver on NWH, plenty of BBQ wood, and no shortage of mouths to feed. Lets party and leave the Bickersons to their own divisives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegV Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 Oleg, you are one thick headed human being. My God, take a hint already and take a break. Your last posting fiasco was completely self inflicted, despite prior warnings not to go there. I'm saying this as a friend. Cheerist. Pat, I have a lot of bones in my head indeed. I am trying to make the point that the mountains will soon (speaking on a geological time scale) be gone as we turn them and the rest of the planet into a tourist attractions, dig ledges, carve deep trails around rock formation, not to mention the a spirit of the Hill is being lost. I know few older climbers who quit going to Smith because it was turned into a Disney Land. People have been living in the caves for many thousands of years with very little impact on nature. Shitting and peeing in the mountains does not destroy them, technology does. Keep our planet wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) You're trying to continue that utter trainwreck of a TR, that abject piece of idiocy that you posted against sage advice not to, and you know it. The mods did us all a HUGE favor, you most especially, by pulling it. Take the hint and give it a rest. I mean, seriously, what's your end game here? Are you seriously going to tell me with a straight face that you are truly interested in how bolts are destroying our mountains? Do we really need our 200th Raindawg salt lick on this site? Go do a climb. preferably one that doesn't take a public dump on park regulations, and post some stoke. It's the start of winter, everyone's bitchy, but some folks are still climbing, posting, and actually making our toughest time of year a little easier for the rest of us who have been kept city bound by other commitments. It's not a lot to ask for, really. Yeah, I should be following my own advice and doing this via PM, but this bolt war has no solution other than to just drop it, is widely participated in, and never seems to end, so this message is for the community at large. This has gotten really, really old, and the amusement factor died around the time of the dinosaurs. Q the usual suspects to inevitably point out the hypocrisy in my post (innernutz!), but I can safely say the desire to make this repetitive, pointless, yet contentious feud just go away is widely held. Finally, Smith is not a wilderness area. It's not even close to being one. It's a small, heavily trafficked State Park and has been that way for a long, long time now. But that's not, after all, what this thread is really about. It's about lashing back - and one of you two is going to have to put on the big pants and stop this crap. You want Ian to be that guy, or will you be the one to step up? Think of it this way - there's no more effective way to one up your opponent than to take the high ground. And let me ask you this: if you truly give a rip about keeping our planet wild, how much time and money did you donate to effective organizations that actually have track record of doing that? Is this thread your idea of saving the planet? Are you seriously going to foist a yes answer to that question on me, comrade? Edited October 22, 2013 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Oleg, you are one thick headed human being. Konechno, on russkiy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegV Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dberdinka Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Why so much butt hurt? His last TR appears fairly tame intially? Catched Version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) It's a timing/diplomacy thing. Posting a pic of illegal Monkey camping w/ a fire was begging for a shitstorm, as well as a citation. I don't have an issue with anything in the TR - Russian finger potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but the event really didn't require advertisement. I really took exception to the shitty, nasty reaction to the TR by those Smiffholes who feel somehow entitled to junior parking cop/Popedom there - a point I don't need to belabor any further. The universe's timing helped create this shitstorm - as it followed closely on the heels of the Utah trundling incident (something I wasn't even aware of until this mornings headlines). That provided some truly dishonest red meat for the Smiffholes to bloat their smear campaign, which practically placed the Russkies right alongside the Scoutmasters in goblin land. Political campaign tactic 101. Just what the world needs more of. Of course, the shit wave expanded amongst the usual suspects until every alpinist who ever removed a death block (or just knocked one down a chosspile for the spectacle) was conspiring to topple Castleton Tower and dry hump Delicate Arch as a finale. I heart gym rats telling alpinists how to climb. Oh, your hold just rotated. Better call the route setter to tighten it. I just wonder if we really need to continue this running gun battle under this threads completely BS guise is all. I know its the Mountain Men versus the Preachers here, a general cultural rift that splits our Republic right where that huge stick penetrates its butt crack, but it just seems pointless. Edited October 22, 2013 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Pat fuels the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) You make an excellent point Kevbone - I am part of this shitshow now by proxy. Ugh. I'm attempting to post mortem this thing, which is very likely the wrong thing to do here. It wouldn't be my first mistake. Edited October 22, 2013 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Speaking of fires smoking is also illegal in the park until the end of October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) Is that really true? LOL Speaking of smoking, my learned sources tell me that that Oregon will likely legalize a certain herbal remedy next year, meaning that it will be available for legal commercial purchase sometime the following year. Edited October 22, 2013 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 General Advisory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Countdown to thread shutdown.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Can't we all just smoke a bowl/read our Bibles together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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