LUCKY Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) Fossil Rock has new signage, access only by permit, see link below.. WTF 150.00 Weyerhaeuser http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/pdfs/businesses/recreationalaccess/Vail-Hotline-Message.pdf Starts August 1st Edited June 4, 2013 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Wow! We saw the sign on sunday and thought it would be some kind of hassle but not expensive. It was pretty clean up there too except for a tent. I like Fossil but I think I'll not be going there after July till next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 gotta be high enough to keep out the riff raff. What gun shooting, cheap beer swilling and home appliance dumping guy is gonna spend $150? (unless it is for bullets, beer or home appliances) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 This is just an effort to make some money off the hunters who want to use their motorized vehicles, its not really about climbers. What enforcement mechanism do they plan to use? If I had to pay $150 I'd be sure and get my money's worth of dump tippage out of it. Nitwits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 I think whats happening is Weyerhaeuser is shutting the Vail area to all access year round except for 750 permits at $150.00 each for hunting season August 1 to December 31... I think Weyerhauser gets a public access tax break WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 This is horrible news. Can we get the access fund involved? If I wasn't moving to California for a couple of years starting this July I would be all over this. Fossil provides a very unique niche in the arsenal of Washington crags. A near sea level (warm in winter with no snow)cluster of 8 or so crags that stay dry and doesn't seep like all the other overhanging areas in WA. It is worth saving. Also from a historical perspective it has one of the first if not the first 5.13 sport route in Washington (now chopped though). It also provides gymnastic 3D movement that is not found on vertical granite sport routes at Index, etc. If a climber wakes up on a rainy Saturday morning in late December this could be about the only crag in the state good to go. N.Bend, Equinox, etc. areas seep and everything east of the crest will likely be snowed in or cold. The small features on overhanging rock could allow some really hard routes for future generations to bolt. The average Seattle sport climber that may only visit a couple of times a year likely wouldn't spring for the 150 bucks and I bet the 750 permits get snatched up quickly by the hunters so local climbers will also be out of luck. Enforcement of this crazy idea is easy. Criminal trespass citations can be issued by the timber companies. My brother got one once. The local sheriff can grant these powers to the timber security guards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) I think whats happening is Weyerhaeuser is shutting the Vail area to all access year round except for 750 permits at $150.00 each for hunting season August 1 to December 31... If I'm reading it right access is onlylimited from August to December when you need the expensive permit. It's not a year round closure. I've hunted that area before and get's pretty crowded. I'm wondering if this is a way to mitigate the number of guys running around in the woods with guns during those months. Edited June 5, 2013 by Figger_Eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 The signage is already up,NO ACCESS EXCEPT BY PERMIT, I think this is going to be a year round closure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Weyerhaeuser Suks, you use to be able to drive to the crag and drive the log'n roads and enjoy the countryside, than they gated the roads and hassled climbers go'n to crag especially during the week, now they have locked up the crag and a big part of the countryside to public access, and I think they get a public access tax break.... This is just wrong on soo many levels BIG FISH ....WEYERHAEUSER LITTLE FISH....PUBLIC GOBBLE GOBBLE LITTLE FISH EATEN BY BIG FISH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAC-PNW Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The AAC / WCC is tracking this. It's still hard to determine from the language if this will be a year round closure beginning in 2014, and when I called the Weyerhauser number this morning I was thrown into the loop of endless pre-recorded messages. We're working on getting a contact within the company to provide the answer. Is the no trespassing sign posted different from the one that's always there? Is it a new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonG Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 What is this "public access tax break?" I haven't heard of this before.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obwan Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 This sounds bad - where/what is the legal stand for Matt P. And can AAC/WCC do anything with this situation, I guess it really is private property of Weyco. Jens is right, this would be a bummer loss to Washington climbing - being such a wet climate. I remember searching for this place in 89/90 and getting scooped by hunters. Weyco is slamming the wrong people. Basically, we're screwed because they don't give a crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) These are new signs( Access by permit ONLY ) posted all over the Vail Weyerhaeuser log'n property at the yellow gates even close to my house far away from Fossil the hunters will probably make a bigger stink than climbers could ever think about...to no avail...I live close and have had to put up with there BS climbing at Fossil for years, Access to Fossil is on there main log'n 1000 road, security guard hassles, Log'n Trucks dust'n you out think'n it's funny All good things can come to an end, Glad I enjoyed climbing the unique rock at Fossil while I could. Edited June 24, 2013 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonG Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 It's not public land though, is it? Why demonize Weyerhaeuser? I understand that everyone got used to the access, but it isn't like they have to let climbers in. Acting like you deserve it won't get you anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obwan Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Jason - you are correct, we probably need to let it go. It was also one of the best Mt. Rainier views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 It's not public land though, is it? Why demonize Weyerhaeuser? I understand that everyone got used to the access, but it isn't like they have to let climbers in. Acting like you deserve it won't get you anywhere. So you think it's ok to lock up that much property to public access....And there is state land in those hills they are lock'n up, I can show you some of it if you want...a few years in the 80's Weyerhaeuser paid less than 0 taxes, that means they got public taxes as incentive to hire as they were lay'n off....that's how I left...It's not just about climber access it's about everyone who enjoys the outdoors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drederek Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Yes it is much more than climbers, I almost always see or hear whole families walking up to the top of Fossil. There are some very nice swimming holes down the other side of the hiway as well. I hope this is just something for hunting/fire season (the way I interpreted it, perhaps naively) and not a year round thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/Businesses/RecreationalAccess/Washington If you look at the Vail map in the link you get an idea of how much land Weyerhaeuser is closing access to , state land, hunting, swim'n holes, rivers for fishing and it is look'n like this is a year round closure, why would signage be up already? The talk out in the hills is it's a year round closure, all the gates will have plywood signage of access by permit only like Fossil ,Crawford MT, Deschutes river,ECT. That is already up Edited June 10, 2013 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 Archery DEER season September 1st to December 31st Bear season August 1st to November 15th 750 permits at $150.00 each August 1st to December 31st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 The signs do say access by permit only August 1st to December 31st so it could be a half year closure, or just the beginning Access to Fossil during the week has always been fragile because it is on the 1000 road, a main log'n road for Fossil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyf Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I have a message in to someone I know at Weyerhaueser corporate to try to get some clarity. But as I read the website (linked above), the closure/permit access system is only in place from Aug 1-Dec 31, with normal access the rest of the year. That's my take as a lawyer, although I admit that may not mean much... Andy WCC Board Member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Current state laws do provide a lower tax rate for private forest land that is used for timber production. However, public access is not a requirement stated in the law as some people believe. There might be some confusion because at one time an “open space” designation did require public access and in the intent language of the bill establishing the reduced tax rate for forest land listed recreational spaces as one of the public benefits from sustainable forestry. WDFW has some concerns that eventually the practice of charging access fees by large land owners may limit the ability of some to participate in outdoor recreation and hunting in particular. Surveys have shown that declining access to hunting areas is one of the most common concerns of hunters and one of the key reasons why some are leaving the sport. Sent to me by WDFW Wildlife Program Customer Service Edited June 13, 2013 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's not public land though, is it? Why demonize Weyerhaeuser? I understand that everyone got used to the access, but it isn't like they have to let climbers in. Acting like you deserve it won't get you anywhere. Hancock, Champion, and now WH are all doing it to varying degrees. It is private property, after all. A good read on the history at the root of this issue: Jensen, Derrick, George Draffan, and John Osborn. Railroads and Clearcuts: Legacy of Congress's 1864 Northern Pacific Railroad Land Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Railroads and clearcuts campaign ..... Millions of acres of public land intended for homesteaders was instead given to timber, mining, and real estate corporations. The failure of the railroad land grant policy is the cause of many of today's economic, political, and environmental problems, including deforestation, toxic waste, and taxpayer subsidies. The Railroads & Clearcuts Campaign intends to hold government and corporations accountable, and to reclaim this land to the public domain. http://www.landgrant.org/ Edited June 14, 2013 by LUCKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) As for Fossil, Ted's Wall or Ottoman Empire rebolted with all the drilled pockets filled in and remaining bolt on holds removed could provide Rudy's kid and all the the other next generation upstarts with sectors that could someday hold more promise than any other sector in Washington. I haven't climbed a ton in Europe but this sector looks like Frankenjura. You need overhanging dry rock and small features. We don't have good limestone closer than seven hours from Puget Sound. The main fossil wall has unlimited potential for steep overhanging features.Ironically, 95% of the current Fossil Rock traffic (and most of the posters on this site) is at the vertical areas. These kids will have long since climbed out all the North Bend and World Wall type crags and their contrived linkups and extensions (and extensions of extensions) and be bored of the index pin scars and slabs. If you've travelled a bit, you know what I mean in terms of steep rock and small features. You can throw out most sandstone and granite areas. I can think of no better rock climbing areas in the state for the months of December and January. Is RumR's kid or Sean B, gonna send the line left of Scarface ten years from now..unless Ondra beats them to it? Fossil is worth saving. Go through your guidebooks and look at all the areas that are "climbed out". Edited June 14, 2013 by Jens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.