deadguy Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Post deleted by gapertimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 SEF says: By some twisted logic, salbrecher says climbing death hoaxes are a good training exercise? Real bright idea. Other than what other people have said and I have desputed and gumbi sheriffs tripping can you tell me why not. If SAR personell get hurt getting to the base of a climbers cliff that presumably (I havn't been there) climbers get to in sandles than I don't want them rescuing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Yep, ranks up there with such other excellent training thechniques for authorities as the bomb hoax in the school, or carrying a box cutter aboard the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek_the_Greek Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 If SAR personell get hurt getting to the base of a climbers cliff that presumably (I havn't been there) climbers get to in sandles than I don't want them rescuing me. In mountain rescue, SAR folks are climbers, usually good ones. The cops are around because they dispatch out the SAR folks. If it's at all off-road work, they're not usually there (it's not clear to me what happened to the deputy in this case). Frenchman's (sunshine wall) would probably be close enough to the road that some out of shape desk types would try to stumble their way down the trail, but I'm just guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_detrick Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 So I heard from partners in the fire department, that it was a helmet test. Someone put a helmet on a dummy and drop him off, someone walking by on top saw it and called 911, they split before anyone showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindude Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Lots of rumors now circulating about not only the dummy, but also about the Good Vibrations pillar toppling a couple weeks ago. One I heard is that the Vantage Yeti is responsible for both the pillar toppling and the dummy. Another rumor, more serious, is that the pillar was toppled using a jack, and the same people later "planted" the dummy. I can see trundling a problematic pillar in the name of safety. But the dummy thing is something else altogether. If the pillar was toppled for safety reasons, why hasn't anyone come forward and taken responsibility? Regardless, the climbing community is taking the rap for the dummy BS. In today's Spokesman-Review (you might have to register/log in): http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news-story.asp?date=121202&ID=s1270842&cat=section.sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 JY heard that Herm's Tower had been toppled. He went over to confirm this and to recover some of his hangers from Positive Vibrations if it was in fact true. (it is) While heading down the scree he saw what looked like a body under some rubble, immediately called 911 and waited for them to respond. After they showed up and discovered the dummy, they now want to talk to the individuals responsible for the hoax/trundle. They told JY he did the right thing by calling 911 before approaching the "body". One of the officers who responded apparently twisted his ankle in the scree. I doubt the individuals responsible for the prank would have wanted it to go this far, it's a shame that it did, it's really quite humerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 seems like a lot of weird stuff happening out there. Think I'll stay away from that place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt_clipper Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 As for SAR members, I have met some of them and most of them SUCK. They would killed themselves trying to help anybody other than a hiker with a spained ankle. No offense to anybody on SAR teams, but the ones I've met scare me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Abilities vary widely. "SAR" can mean groundpounders looking for trufflehunters or high angle stuff. Most MRU's in the PNW have some decent standards, but there are certainly individuals who are not up to par for the demands placed upon them and unfortunately they represent the entire organization when they screw up. Some get wrapped up in the technical rope stuff and stop focusing on their own personal climbing abilities, or are way too safety-conscious since they are constantly exposed to the negative aspects of climbing. Such is life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayshaker100 Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 I have been watching the posts the last few days on the so called dummy rescue. It is time a local FF-EMT who has been involved in both the Kropp body recovery and the dummy rescue voices an opinion. So far this year there have been 4 serious accidents in the Frenchman Coulee area. One death,one life threatning, two non life threatning with serious injuries. If training is an issue then it may be wise to look at yourselves! During rescues I have had to scream and yell at so called profesional climbers who were still overhead on the rocks climbing during patient assesment and packaging. Over the years I believe that most rescues that I have been involved with have been created by human error. One rescuer gets a minor injury and all of a sudden we are poorly trained? I have had a firefighter injured by falling rock dislodged by a blackhawk helicopter during a patient lift. These are not games we are playing. All this by a local volunteer fire department that has no high angle rescue training. We can only deal with your injuries if you are on the ground. Actual high angle rescue personnel could take another 2 hours to get on the scene. I take pride in the service I can provide injured climbers. It is true some of us need additional training in some areas and a little more excercise wont hurt. Before you start bad mouthing us, stick around the next time dust-off hovers overhead, you may change your opinion. Safety is always a top priority in this buisness. I commend Erdan on dealing with the experience of losing a friend. May you have a safe adventure! I feel better now that my opinion has been made. I do hike in the area just to check trails and to keep myself updated on the latest improvements. I like chatting with climbers about the area so if you see a white fire helmet feel free to introduce yourself. I would rather meet you this way than as a patient.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 As for SAR members, I have met some of them and most of them SUCK. They would killed themselves trying to help anybody other than a hiker with a spained ankle. No offense to anybody on SAR teams, but the ones I've met scare me. Bolt_clipper, I have held my tounge for a long while reading your imature posts about things which you obviously know nothing about. I can hold it no longer. SHUT THE FUCK UP Not only have you offened SAR members, some of which are my friends, but you have offended people who owe a great debt of gratitude to those who voulanteer their free time to save peoples asses when the shit hits the fan. You'll be singing a different tune when you eventualy get your dumb ass stuck in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Hayshaker, Thanks for posting your much-needed viewpoint. If you have been lurking at all long, you are no doubt familiar with the tone and content of much of what is posted on this board. You must also know that the most vocal posters on this board do not necessarily represent the majority view of the participants here. Many thanks for the difficult service and personal risks you and your colleagues provide for our benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Sorry about that outburst...that punk's comment just pushed me over the edge. ditto what SEF said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt_clipper Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 I apologize for all I have offended. I tried to make the point that Iain did, and fucked it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toast Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Yo bolt clipper, Who the fuck are you, dude? Get a life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 I'd like to make clear that my post was not intended to attack any SAR personnel in any way. I understand the risks undertaken, regardless of the assignment. I was just stating that there is a wide range of ability and experience out there. Some members are some of the finest climbers and problem-solvers in the PNW, some have much less experience. None of these people, who are volunteering their time for trainings and often dangerous missions w/o advance warning, deserve a verbal lashing. I apologize if I came across that way. Thanks for writing in, and good luck to you. Hope this was your last call to that location for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To_The_Top Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Hayshaker, Well put as others have said. I have been both rescued and a rescuer. What comes around goes around. TTT To those that risk themselves (with training) to rescue others, you: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 bolt clipper- you punk ass adolescent how about you show some respect shut up and give something back to the community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 how do i give you a negative star rating. Well since i can't do that hope you get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt_clipper Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 check your PMs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 bolt clipper: I apologize for all I have offended. I tried to make the point that Iain did, and fucked it up. Yo bolt clipper, Who the fuck are you, dude? Get a life bolt clipper- you punk ass adolescent how about you show some respect shut up and give something back to the community. Uh Oh, here we go again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindude Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Thanks, Steve, for providing the truthful perspective for this spray-board. Hayshaker, by far, most of us climbers (i'd say likely 99%) do appreciate what is done by all SAR rescue folks. Thanks for expressing your opinion in light of some of the other comments. All in all, this dummy thing is pretty strange. Whoever called it in--there's a difference in the stories between the S-R article and slaphappy's post--unfortunately didn't immediately get close to check out what was really under the pillar. It seems to me this was the whole reason for the SAR call-out fiasco. If the "body" had been checked out by those calling it in, they would have seen it was a dummy. On the other hand, I can see if they were looking down from up above and it might have taken some time to get down to it, that 911 should have been called. Truly a bad practical joke that got out of hand. I wouldn't want this one instance of calling Wolf due to freak circumstances delaying any rescues that might be needed in the future out at Frenchman's Coulee or anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 "I doubt the individuals responsible for the prank would have wanted it to go this far, it's a shame that it did, it's really quite humerous." Perhaps it's because I'm just home from werk at this somewhat ungodly hour, and I've been seeing both sides of this hour a lot of late, but catching up on this thread, I guess I'm missing the part where it gets humorous. Was that when the SAR person got hurt? Or maybe when they thought they were on a body recovery? I'm all for pranks when they are, well, funny, and I'm all for reducing the scary loose bits to rubble, in a safe manner, but beyond that, it's a pretty dumb deal. Reading this yesterday before the trundling/dummy thing got put together, I remember thinking "climbers are going to get blamed for this, and it will do nothing to enhance our image." Guess I was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 The part where it became “humorous” escaped me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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