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Dane

And I bet you thought Twight was dead.....

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Folks, I've had great experience with Gingko Biloba & Ibuprofen for altitude. Way safer than the Diamox.

 

But is taking Ginko and Ibuprofen cheating?

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Absolutely. I cheat when I can. Because I have no delusions of grandeur of having a full page in American Alpine Journal of my first ascent of Mailbox Peak without supplemental oxygen, Diamox, water and trekking poles.

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This conversation is starting to remind me of the "(fill in the blank) is aid" thing that went through this site years ago. I still truck that line out on partners every once in a while, usually to a bewildered silent stare: "What? You have boots? Boots are aid!"

 

Hey, when we first crawled out of the ocean we didn't have legs. Legs are cheating!

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The whole argument hinges on whether you climb for yourself or for others.

 

If you climb for others (profit, attention, or competition) then I agree.

 

If you climb for yourself then who gives a fuck what you do or how you climb as long as you don't ruin it for others.

 

I listened to a comedian who made a very interesting point. With advances in equipment and training, top end athlete are pretty much performing at their genetic potential. Might as well just give out a medal for "the tallest" person, or allow and encourage doping and see what we're really capable of.

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btw, there are a ton of holes in Twight's obviously meant to ruffle feathers piece.

 

I'm sure the ethics committe will invalidate accomplishments on a case by case basis.

 

all our accomplishments, failures, and lives are predetermined by genetics and the laws of physics anyaway. Free will can't exist. That article posted from the CAJ makes a most excellent point about the element of luck.

 

I also heard there's something going on in Syria or something

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damn straight - yet only the kwisatz haderach may quest to climb the olympus mons in the purest of styles!!! :)

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Wasn't it Washington climbers that were using a winch on the E. Face of Everest? Style setting standard there...

 

 

On the same climb:

 

"I think we could have done it without [bottled oxygen]...we made a conscious decision to use it in terms of safety."

-George Lowe

Edited by Choada_Boy

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It seems to me that much of the discussion here has missed Twight's point.

 

Breathing supplemental oxygen is fundamentally different than carrying an ice axe or a goose down sleeping bag in that it is not simply a piece of equipment in the same manner that a piece of gear makes it easier but that it actually increases the performance of the performer.

 

I still think Hillary and Norgay first climbed Everest, and I'm a fan of Willi Unsoeld, but there is some merit to this notion.

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Who?

 

"The first successful ascent of the Kangshung Face was made in 1983 by an American expedition led by James D. Morrissay. After five and a half weeks of effort, Kim Momb, Carlos Buhler, and Louis Reichardt summited on 8 October, 1983. George Lowe, Dan Reid and Jay Cassell summited the next day."

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is it illegal to sell naked photos of myself as a child to perverts?

since yer parents own the originals, i suppose it depends on wether or not you first obtained their permission? :)

Edited by ivan

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layton, you have the best point. climb for yourself and take all the drugs you want. based on ivan's TR's, I believe he's putting this fully into practice.

Edited by CaleHoopes

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Breathing supplemental oxygen is fundamentally different than carrying an ice axe or a goose down sleeping bag in that it is not simply a piece of equipment in the same manner that a piece of gear makes it easier but that it actually increases the performance of the performer.

 

So does food and water.

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Breathing supplemental oxygen is fundamentally different than carrying an ice axe or a goose down sleeping bag in that it is not simply a piece of equipment in the same manner that a piece of gear makes it easier but that it actually increases the performance of the performer.

 

So does food and water.

 

And those gu packets. CHEATING!!!

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