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Newman55

Quickdraws - BD Oz Wiregates - any opinions?

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Folks,

 

Asking formy first set of quick-draws for Christmas. Leaning towards the Black Diamond Oz set - basically just because they're lightweight. Any opinions out there about these?

 

Thanks

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Agreed. If you are just starting out, there is no need to go cadillac. Durable and cost effective are much better traits in a draw.... go with some high quality nylon ones, like the BD Freewire noted above.

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if you want the best in performance and longevity get petzl spirits with the beefy nylon draw for grabbin. nothing comes close. If you're looking for lightweight get wild country helium. If you don't want the best, then it don't matter - get the cheapest you can find

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if you want the best in performance and longevity get petzl spirits with the beefy nylon draw for grabbin. nothing comes close. If you're looking for lightweight get wild country helium. If you don't want the best, then it don't matter - get the cheapest you can find

 

The "best" is subjective. I prefer the Mammut Element guickdraw to the Spirit quickdraws. element_key_lock_expressset_straight_gate_bent_gate_15cm_bild1_2.jpg

 

 

Chad

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with total respect to all, but it is just a stinking quickdraw. For the most part, they are all very good. The minor differences are negliable. get whatever is decent and on sale.

I would choose durablility for a sport draw so the kind that is wide like Layton mentions is good. Pick a biner that you can use with your hand. (not too tiny) Try to keep the set all the same so you know exactly what you are getting every time you pull a draw off the harness. No mixed bag of draws of different lengths that usually build up from a gradual buying of draws and finding gear.

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Gene -

I sense a bit of cranky from you today. You need to get out and come play in the cold my friend. :)

 

 

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Sad news, but all the Heliums sold in the US since July have been recalled. There is a batch number on the spine that can be used to determine if your 'biner is among those being recalled. Check with Wild Country or Excalibur distribution in Sandy, Utah. The hook on the carabiner body doesn't engage with the wire gate well enough and the strength is way compromised.

 

The Oz carabiners have a slightly more narrow profile in the area where the rope will run. This means the rope will make a sharper kink right there when you fall on it... does it matter? I dunno.. I'm a big guy... all my sport draws are Petzl Spirits but there are tons of solid choices.

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I recommend that you get the best, you're probably going to be stuck with them for at least 10 years. Saving a few dollars doesn't make sense if you ammortize it over how much you'll use them, just buy a couple less and add more over the years. The Petzl Spirits, or the BD Livewires are both very nice if you climb a lot of sport. I like the Petzl spirits a little better because you can get the longer draws which are a little nicer for trad climbing.

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I would retire QDs before 10 years (manufacturer's wear-out is considerably less)

 

I really like the 'wires too. They are beefy enough to give yo ua little extra reach on clips, they are durable feeling(if that makes sense) and they are really awesome looking if you have 10-12 racked on your harness.

 

I know it shouldn't matter, but I think looks matter sometimes...

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jeez, they're quick draws. last set i got were 55 bucks for 6 of them. work just fine.

 

did you know you can get a pair of jeans for 1,100 bucks, has a single weave of red thread, hard to spot.

 

arcteryx seems to work on this principle.

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Folks,

 

Asking formy first set of quick-draws for Christmas. Leaning towards the Black Diamond Oz set - basically just because they're lightweight. Any opinions out there about these?

 

Thanks

 

Welcome to CC, first off this should probably be in the "Gear Critic" and second what exactly are you using these draws for? Sport, trad, ice? Some of the above?

 

The answer to that will also dictate HOW MANY you will need.

 

I'd skip the Oz, there are better draws out there, especially for sport climbing. Many folks have noticed how the finish quality on those biners dropped when production moved overseas......

 

Solid gates are nice for sport only, with nylon runners and very importantly--some kind of rubber keeper for the rope end.

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Thanks to all that were kind enough to respond to my question despite the faux pas of posting in the wrong section of the forum.

 

Anyone care to shed a little light on specific traits desirable in quick-draws depending on the type of climbing done?

 

Longer dogbones for Sport?

Bent-gate biners for Ice?

 

Does it matter at all, or do you all use your quickdraws across all climbing disciplines?

 

Thanks again for all the info - very helpful.

 

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As mentioned, the type of climbing you'll do will matter - but getting started, the package deals of six usually get the best price/sale. If you will mostly do sport climbs with straight up routes, then six short ones will do, and if you mix it up with some trad then the medium/longer ones help reduce the rope drag. It also helps in alpine/trad to have a bunch of slings and some extra biners, as the routes wander and it helps keep the rope drag down.

There is some good beta and all of the pro's & cons (a book) on the REI website:

 

www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/quickdraws-slings-webbing.html

 

As said before don't buy to many to start as your preferences will change, everyone has their own idea which develops in time.

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If you think you ever might want to climb longer routes or non-sport climbs, get wiregate draws so you can just buy some skinny slings and repurpose the same lightweight carabiners.

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you can also save a ton of weight by untying, passing the rope thru the biner, and then tying back in :0-

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you can also save a ton of weight by untying, passing the rope thru the biner, and then tying back in :0-

 

I think you are suggesting that you pass the rope through the bolt or sling directly.

 

Please, this is in jest. :)

 

 

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I slept in, got a massive cold and it's raining outside so I'll play. I don't know if I'd worry too much about it. It seems like the guys who are climbing hard assed bolt clipping sport stuff often don't seem to care all that much. Walk up aggro gully at Smith sometime see what folks have hanging off them....However, to flesh out your different draws for different things question:

If you think you ever might want to climb longer routes or non-sport climbs, get wiregate draws so you can just buy some skinny slings and repurpose the same lightweight carabiners.

IMO, the brand choice for Blakes method is the Wild Country Heliums. Full sized, full strength full on sexy:-). I had 6mm shoulder slings I've doubled up and for those long routes Blake is describing, they work awesome. They don't make the 6mm anymore (the strength curve of a 6mm sling drawn on a chart looked like someone rolling a rock off a cliff, whereas the 8mm will work as good and last longer. I hear these doubled up draws called "trad draws", and you can haul them along on long gear routes and either use them as full length runners or doubled up as a draw to extend a piece or clip a bolt. Good stuff. If you go do any long route in Yosemite or Red Rocks, you'll quickly see that most lines wander and the rope drag you will get off a short draw is not something a rational being encourages or wants. Thus, longer is better. If you do a route like Epinephrine as an example, a mix of both is nice, there are both bolts where a draw works great, and wandering pitches as well. If you are feeling comfortable, clipping a bolt with a shoulder sling (seen over the shoulder photo below) only adds a foot or so to a potential fall, and you shouldn't be falling on these kinds of routes anyway.

3_Bill_hangin_out_top_of_p_3.jpg

 

Here's Ujahn with a bolt clipped on Epi, could you imagine a fall in a chimney like this? You'd look like a ball in a Pachinko machine hitting both walls as you fell. Brutal. Don't causally fall on long routes or think it will be fine dogging on your gear. Not saying you can't fall, but it's something which needs to be well thought out and more for a guy on his game to chose to do. Ask Blake or anyone doing long routes, it's a different dynamic all the way around from a sport climbing area with (generally) lots of people and easy fast connection to the ground if something goes wrong. The casual attitude seen by most climbers at sport areas about falling translates poorly to gear placements in the outback.

4_Ujahn_in_the_p7_5_8_chimney.jpg

 

 

For a bolt clip up route like some of the stuff at Smith Rock (I don't do a lot of those), the doubled shoulder length draws do not work as good as just a quickdraw. They're fiddly and floppy, whereas a dedicated draw like the great clipping Petzl one Layton has posted above will rule. The Petzl biners clip well (very smooth) and the beefy draw is nice for grabbing, and won't need replacing anytime soon.

 

I bought a rack of DMM Mambas because of the smoothness of the gates, and I love them, but not every "bolt clipper" I've been out with does. I've got the version wherein only one end is sewn in, not looking forward to replacing the sling.

L_DMMMOSKIT0MAMBA00A.jpg

I also have the Wild Country Helium draws for just a lightweight sport draw. I carry them anytime I'm going on a hike to get to a climb. So light. The hooded nose will help keep the thing clipped in a swinging fall too. I got them because REI had them on sale for $10.83. 2 biners and the draw. $10.83 total. Wish I'd bought more:-) They're nice as the colors on each end give you a quick clue which end should be on the bolt. Light is nice, but the price includes shorter longevity.

wc_helium_10cm_qckdraw5pk_0.jpg

 

 

A quick check of 5.12 and 5.13 climbers will get you all kinds of draws, and if you ask them why they chose that brand, it's often cause they got a pro or a bro deal from Metolius or Black Diamond. Other than biner size, ie, no one likes the mini biners (like the Nano or Mini), most of them don't seem too particular in general, and will grab about anyones draws just randomly laying on the ground to siege a route it seems. There's exceptions, and I'd look at Chads suggestion on the Mammut: but I've never noticed him being all that particular out in the real world. Of course, that might just be a function of me not paying attention.

 

No matter what you get, draws and biners wear out and need replacement. Fixed draws at some areas (with particulate matter in the vicinity) in particular. The wear in the biner in the photo below resulted in a rope that became 2 parts. The first draw/first bolt on a sport route seems to be the worst as the force of a fall is higher. You see this kind of wear on a first bolt fixed draw, don't clip it if you think you may pitch, replace at least the worn biner.

 

Carabiner_Rope_BlackDiamond1.jpg

 

Death biners.

 

So to recap, it matters but little which draw you buy.

 

CRW_6011.jpg

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Just be sure the WC Heliums arent subject to the current recall.

 

Minimum # is 10 draws 12 better. DMM is the best Aeros and Spectre 2 are reasonably priced, Alpha Sport are awesome, ditto Alpha Trad.

 

Snag free gates are the new standard, wire or solid gate.

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I've got a rack of OZ draws thanks to a discount connection and I like them just fine. I really notice the weight difference with a whole rack compared to the motley assortment of old draws I used to use. Between the light biners and the skinny draws though, they seem a little more wear prone, so I usually reserve them for trips and use some older draws for the workaday climbing here in Tenino.

 

Still, the most effective five pounds I could lose is not on my rack of gear. :laf:

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I've got a rack of OZ draws thanks to a discount connection and I like them just fine. I really notice the weight difference with a whole rack compared to the motley assortment of old draws I used to use. Between the light biners and the skinny draws though, they seem a little more wear prone, so I usually reserve them for trips and use some older draws for the workaday climbing here in Tenino.

 

Still, the most effective five pounds I could lose is not on my rack of gear. :laf:

 

Just five? :laf:

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