Medical marijuana grower busts - an ongoing saga

[dberdinka]

Can I legally carry around an ounce of marijuana?

According to the recently passed initiative, beginning December 6th, adults over the age of 21 will be able to carry up to an ounce of marijuana for personal use. Please note that the initiative says it “is unlawful to open a package containing marijuana…in view of the general public,” so there’s that. Also, you probably shouldn’t bring pot with you to the federal courthouse (or any other federal property).

 

BUMMER....better leave the bivi kit behind if you're heading into the Cascades...nation parks or forest service land.....

[rob]

They should have kept the state liquor stores around a while longer and we would have had and easier weed transition. And what will the Feds do now with wayward WA and CO?

 

It was amusing to watch a handful of long-time weed users laugh hysterically at the notion of buying "Corporate McWeed" at state-run stores, much less doing all of their buying during the old state liquor store's operating hours.

 

They evidently get much better price, quality, service, and convenience from private sellers and have zero intention of patronizing any state monopoly.

 

How do they know their supply is better and cheaper when there is no "corporate mcweed" yet available? For that matter how do they know they get better "service?" They sure seem to know alot. Smirk

 

The medical supply is quite good and high quality (though not cheap), with excellent service. I suspect that the quality in state shops will be similar, after all these growers already have operations and distribution. All of the co-op suppliers I know are already lining up to get licenses. And there is no state monopoly on manufacturing (other than the license), just on selling. Most people I've spoken to in the industry expect prices to drop 30-50%. Your friends sound like idiots. My $0.02

[tvashtarkatena]

I was just talking with Alison, ex dir. of the 502 campaign this evening. Word is the state's worried about handling the flood of license requests.

 

Regarding your McWeed 'friends' opinions - who cares? They lost.

 

Like any private business, pot stores who offer good product and service will thrive, while those who don't will go out of business. Free market n all that.

[tvashtarkatena]

Today's anti-weed legalization piece from FASCnews (they've been running one a day since the election):

 

Home brewers could make pot beer

 

Oh my heavens, no!

 

On another note, it appears that the MT busts are a complicated subject. It would appear that the large grow ops busted may not have been in compliance with state law...it's an ambiguous situ at this point. In addition, MT's Righty Tighty legislature largely repealed their medical MJ law - before the Governor vetoed it. The Tighties than responded with an ballot initiative to do the same - which passed, unfortunately.

 

It's good to be a Washingtonian.

[ivan]

hey tvash, now that the aclu of wa has won it's first major campaign, is it going to do anything to help washingtonians communicate to the feds their desire to be left alone on the subject? email campaign to the white house or anything of the like? any other plans to win the inevitable next phase?

[denalidave]

Today's anti-weed legalization piece from FASCnews (they've been running one a day since the election):

 

Home brewers could make pot beer

 

Oh my heavens,

A buddy of mine, who is widely known as the best brewer around (PHD in microbiology, among other credentials) already made a 420 brown ale a few years back. Like all his beers, it was awesome.

[denalidave]

Regarding driving - high or not, drive a street legal vehicle safely and you won't get pulled over.

 

Its not too terribly much to ask, really.

If only the guys I car pool to work with could adhere to the safe part. These rednecks think this is the Baja, appearantly ...

[denalidave]

Could this be the turning point for the distressed housing market in WA? All the hippies will be bee lining it to purchase homes here, no???

[KaskadskyjKozak]

An interesting twist

[tvashtarkatena]

The Maine and Rhode Island legislatures are considering legalization bills for next year.

 

So far, 23 states have legalized medical MJ, decriminalized MJ, or legalized MJ - all in violation of the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. Most are blue or swing state, but not all - NE, AB, Not all are blue states, either - NE, AL, AZ, and MT (although the latter has been the first and only state to repeal most of its medical MJ law, although sheep shagging remains legal).

 

8 states have both medical and decriminalization laws, making them arguably the most likely to take that next step: They are CA, OR, NV, AK, ME, RI, MA, and CT.

 

AR's med MJ initiative was narrowly defeated this year. OR's defeated legalization initiative, despite being poorly drafted and, as a result, poorly funded, garnished 47% of the vote.

 

Let the games begin!

 

Edited November 19, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

Interesting. I'm assuming that this will be settle in court, somewhere. Maybe regarding commerce, since no commercial bank will touch an MJ grower, distributor, or merchant because of federal guarantees. Right now if you want a commercial account as a medical distributor in WA you have one option. Lie to the bank about your business.

[tvashtarkatena]

Overstated and not entirely accurate. Yes, there are many problems with banking and paying taxes for an MJ business, and yes, MJ business owners have found banks/credit unions who will do business with them without lying. There are an estimated 2500 to 3000 dispensaries nationwide and not all of them are cash n carry or lying about the nature of their business.

 

There may or may not be court battles. Law enforcement activists , including former FBI agents, federal attorneys, and city attorneys, have delivered a letter (and set up a conference call) to urge Holder to not interfere with state level weed laws. Congressional reps have also weighed in, as have the governors of CO and WA. So far, the DOJ has issued a statement that they will not bust operations in compliance with state law, and a later statement that they will not bust medical MJ patients.

 

Speculation is rampant, of course. The informed opinion of I 502's leadership is that the fed is unlikely to sue WA.

 

We'll see as events unfold and the DOJ figures out how its going to proceed. They've given no clear indication of that yet since the election.

Edited November 19, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[Jim]

Well, on the drive up from Olympia I was listening to a segment on KUOW this afternoon. They interviewed big banks (BOA) and small one and credit unions. All of them said they would not touch MJ businesses, including medical, because of the threat of the feds. There was no upside to it from their perspective - the risk far outweighed the minor benefit of another small customer.

 

Then they interviewed medical MJ businesses and they told their saga of having to deal in cash and money orders - because no bank in WA will touch them. Finally - they ended with a MJ medical dispenser who said he just did not say what his business was because when he did that he was refused an account. So, while I admit I don't know the business transactions details - this report seemed to indicate that no MJ business in WA was admitting to a bank what exactly their business was. Tried but failed to find the KUOW podcast - but is was on about 11:30 or so today. Did find this:

MJ Banks

[tvashtarkatena]

"seemed to indicate"? That doesn't equate to "none", scientist.

 

I've read two articles recently where the WA MJ businesses owners had had these issues, but found banks (credit unions, most likely) - but they would not reveal the names for the obvious aforementioned reasons. It's happening, but much of it "seems to be" on the QT.

 

Like I said, speculation is rampant. You've been a "this ain't gonna fly" kinda guy, but then, you're not the most informed source for such a prediction, either. These growing pains happen when society begins to tear down 4 decades of shitty policy.

 

The ambiguity caused by the DOJ's lack of clarity isn't desirable for law enforcement, businesses, or state governments. They're under a lot more pressure to clear things up, one way or the other, since the election.

 

So my prediction is: we'll see.

 

[ivan]

i predict i will, before i die, be able to buy my magical herbs w/ my credit card

[Jim]

"seemed to indicate"? That doesn't equate to "none", scientist.

 

I've read two articles recently where the WA MJ businesses owners had had these issues, but found banks (credit unions, most likely) - but they would not reveal the names for the obvious aforementioned reasons. It's happening, but much of it "seems to be" on the QT.

 

Like I said, speculation is rampant. You've been a "this ain't gonna fly" kinda guy, but then, you're not the most informed source for such a prediction, either. These growing pains happen when society begins to tear down 4 decades of shitty policy.

 

The ambiguity caused by the DOJ's lack of clarity isn't desirable for law enforcement, businesses, or state governments. They're under a lot more pressure to clear things up, one way or the other, since the election.

 

So my prediction is: we'll see.

 

Like I said - it was a report I heard on KUOW about Washington banks, not a nationwide report. They did not outright state "no MJ medical businesses can get a bank account" - thus I only passed on what I heard - which seems the honest thing to do, eh? But - from their reporting one would infer that you cannot go into a WA bank and say - "Hey - I have a MJ business and I'd like to open a commercial account". Well you can, and you will be refused. Can you point to a MJ business that operates a commercial account with bank in full knowledge of their business? Given that they interviewed a range of banks, including small community banks the interviewer thought would defer to state law - the banks interviewed (3 I think of different sizes) all said the same thing. As an institution with federal links (all banks have this unless you are the mafia) they believe it's too much risk to touch MJ businesses. Also - the Seattle Times article I linked to said the same thing. So it's not speculation.

 

And I'm not disagreeing with the big picture - I think this all will end up in court. Where it goes after that - I don't know.

 

Found the NPR transcript - so you can make your own interpretation Pot in WA

[ivan]

it's not often we pinko-lefties get a chance to say "fuck ye" to the UN!

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/official-calls-marijuana-ballot-rollback-17770065

 

it's all a coverup of course, given the UN's track-record of getting anything actually done, they gotta all be closet-stoners?

[tvashtarkatena]

"Strike another match, go start anew

It's all over now, baby blue"

 

[tvashtarkatena]

T minus one six and counting

[ivan]

T minus 16 hours and counting

[tvashtarkatena]

The one year rule making period for I 502 isn't just for making rules for how to run pot stores - it's also a time for the state to attempt to inject a little common sense into the feds - a daunting task, to be sure.

 

I recently heard a DOJ official on the radio claim that the Drug War had cut illicit drug use in half. Incredible. Apparently, some portions of the DOJ are still smoking through their own crack.

 

Eric 'let's fight medical marijuana' Holder's gonna quit next year, apparently. The sooner, the better.

 

Anyhoo - let the fun and games begin!

 

 

[rob]

It's surprising how many medical patients I know that are still butthurt that this passed. I dont get it

[tvashtarkatena]

Before Nov 6, my message to such folks would have been somewhat softer than my message now, which is:

 

"Smoke your weed and STFU. You lost. Get over it."

 

"And oh, BTW, I 502 granted you med folks arrest immunity. Other than that, you're not effected at all. Fuck you very much."

 

The cartoon pot leaf culture hasn't done this civil rights movement any favors - the larger society really doesn't go for pasty dred slack jaw. No, not so much. Fortunately, these Cheech and Chong caricatures actually drove support towards I 502 with their opposition. "Oh, the Dirty Hippies are against it? It must be a good idea."

Edited December 5, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

Interestingly, Congress does not have the power to compel States to enforce federal laws. There have been several SCOTUS rulings on this "commandeering doctrine", one unanimous. From the NY v the US ruling, the first of several test cases:

 

"Congress may not simply . . . commandeer the legislative processes of the States by directly compelling them to enact and enforce a federal regulatory program...."

 

This leaves open the option of federal injunction, selective federal enforcement (today's much reviled situation - but one that cannot increase much without an expansion of DEA resources - although the DEA could redirect its efforts to focus on WA and CO), denial of federal grant money to naughty States, although that would require new federal legislation - in over 15 years of med MJ legality, the feds haven't taken that step yet. The DOJ has effectively used threat of property seizure to shut down med MJ facilities to date. Finally, the feds could also go after taxation - using money laundering statutes or preemption arguments.

 

Or Congress could amend the CSA to change pot to Schedule II or lower and be done with it.

 

Ironically, simply repealing all prohibitions against MJ at the State level (the Dirty Hippy argument) would remove any chance of positive conflict with the CSA - thus nullifying all arguments for federal preemption. Small problem: neither voters nor legislatures would go for that at this point - if this latest round of initiatives was any indication.

Edited December 5, 2012 by tvashtarkatena

[rob]

"I'd rather people keep going to jail until a marijuana legalization initiative comes around that allows me to drive stoned and doesn't enforce regulations of any kind, yee-hah"

 

Fucking hippies.