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layton

favorite ascender set-up and why?

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what do you guys like to use for ascending a fixed line and why

 

1.Two jumars and staggered aiders with daisy chains

or

2.Top jumar with aiders and daisy, gri gri/traxion on belay loop with optional re-direct

 

very low angle

med angle

steep/overhang

 

more tiring

less tiring

faster

slower

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1. whenever I can because it is faster and easier to clean gear, but it is definetly the more tiring system.

 

2. when jumaring overhanging or free hanging fixed lines because 1 becomes very tiring very quickly when hanging in free space, but it is definetly much slower, and harder to pass gear.

 

I have always used 2 with a 2:1 system though where a pulley is attached to the upper jumar and the rope goes through the upper jumar to the grigri then back through the pulley and down to a second lower jumar with daisy and aiders. A very relaxing low energy way to jug a line that is free hanging, but not at all good on low angle terrain.

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I used to be a two jumar (actually old 80s Clog ascenders), two aider guy.

 

I switched to one Petzl jumar with aider for the left hand and one Ushba Basic on the belay loop for cleaning routes from fixed lines. Less shit to get in the way while scrubbing dirt. No need to pull rope through like you have to with a grigri.

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Frog system hands down, kind of a pain on low angle but overall sooo much more efficient. Quick changeovers, easy pickoffs and simple at the rebelays.

 

Easy to improvise, a mech, prussik, long runner or whatever for the upper ascender and whatever flavor progress capture you have available can be substituted for the croll (shhh... kinda like opt 2 :cool:)

 

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2 jugs for long jugs on fixed lines

1 jug/1 gri to pulley for cleaning a route (just feeeeels so much happier, and being tied in isn't so critical)

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anyone used the new petzl microtraxion in place of the gri-gri or croll as in option #2 (or what dru described)?

 

does it slide on it's own?

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funny, we've got totally opposite responses

 

some say #1 is more tiring, some say #2 is more tiring.

any of you guys that disagree have a counter argument?

 

 

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ascending a vertical/overhanging fixed rope without having to clean: frog system.

 

doing lots of aid, cleaning lots of pitches, esp if there's any traversing to be done: 2 ascenders, 2 aiders

 

short aid pitches, or low angle stuff: 1 ascender + aider, 1 progress capture device (grigri, minitraxion, ascender) on belay loop or chest sling (which is really just the frog system, slightly modified)

 

Matt

 

 

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Two ascenders, aiders, etc. Much easier to pass edges, set up pendulum, deal with the unexpected. Jumars suck. BD makes ascenders much like the old Kong type that can crunch through iced lines.

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For steep/free hanging rope climbing I really like the Croll/Frog method. When I used to do a lot of rope access work I could go about 75 feet a minute.The high efficiency is due to using almost all leg work and capturing as much progress as possible with a well adjusted chest sling.

 

Lesser angles, two aiders, petzl or kong ascender typical set up

Edited by hanman

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When I drag my friends out to climb walls they tend to quickly settle for the single jumar/Gri-gri combination due to a greater sense of security.

 

Two jumars is way more efficent for general jugging/cleaning though I'll switch to the jumar/Gri-gri for significant overhangs (real easy to go back and forth)

 

Frog sounds great for free hanging ropes but I've never tried it as I've never fixed lines on the SE Face of El Cap and I'm of the impression it takes some specialized equipment and tuning to get just right.

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I don't see any of these responses addressing the "very low angle" element of the original question, so:

 

in my experience, aiders on very low angle ground just get in the way. I like a single ascender, or often a single prusik (yup, you heard that right...), & simply climb, scramble, or even batman the occasional steep or difficult move, using the ascender or prusik as a self-belay rather than for progress. minimize the clusterf**k.

 

on steep stuff where I'm actually using the ascender(s) for progress, frog works for me, except if I have to pass a lip, then I prefer separate aiders. actually, passing a lip, I find it far easier to clip whatever aid piece is just past the lip so I can unload the fixed rope altogether to get my ascenders past the edge...

 

but - I've only done a handful of walls; certainly no aid ace... just saying what has worked for me...

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i don't see how 2 ascenders is better for cleaning traverses - usually i'm just re-aiding those anyhow, so the gri as my attachment point is nice b/c it's always tight in case either of the aiders/daisies i'm on decides to part...

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agree with the low angle - jumars suck

ivan, on cleaning traverses you stand on the lower jumar aiders, move the upper aider around the piece, and do a lower-out on the lower ascender by slighly disenganging the cam. When in line with the piece, move the lower ascender aroud it.

 

with a gri-gri you have to dismantle it a bit more.

 

re-aiding can be quick, but so can the set-up mentioned above

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i don't see how 2 ascenders is better for cleaning traverses - usually i'm just re-aiding those anyhow, so the gri as my attachment point is nice b/c it's always tight in case either of the aiders/daisies i'm on decides to part...

 

when I've been trying to move fast cleaning a traverse, I have had success balancing the aiders (and my weight) on each side of the piece, and then hopping and pulling the piece in one move. it can be a bit violent when the piece comes out and you swing a good bit, but it's fast.

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Kind of thread drift since Layton was asking about fixed ropes . . . but, when I'm cleaning an aid traverse I use a gri-gri on the bottom because instead of doing funky shit like decribed above to get the load off the lower ascender to release it or unclip, you just use the gri-gri lever to lower yourself out, shift your weight to the upper ascender, clean the piece and suck the slack back in. Fast and you stay attached to the gri-gri and dont have any violent swinging. Rarely need to re-aid unless it's a really long reach or a lip or something.

 

I find ascending a free hanging or near vertical rope is faster with a frog type system and less work. If it's low enough angle to balance on your feet in your aiders without weighting your tie in point then the yosemite system with two aiders and two ascenders can be less tiring/faster. Really low angle is like Monty said, more of a batman/self belay setup than really ascending.

 

If you are on a fixed rope and don't have to lower out off pieces to clean than I think the new Petzl Micro Trax or old Mini Trax would work great in a frog type system on the bottom.

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