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RuMR

Any thoughts about the 18V Makita Rotary Hammer

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as a drill for bolting??? Heard some good stuff, but it seems too good to be true...

 

Looking to get a drill...this is light and quite a bit less than 24v or 36v drills...

 

cheers

Rudy

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Oh...and no bolting debates in this thread please! (I can hope, right???)

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I can't say for certain about the roto-hammer, but in general Makita tools have not held up to heavy industrial construction work as well as other brands.

 

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used a makita 18v roto hammer for the last week or so, but it was into CMU (cinder) blocks at work. works fine for cinder blocks.

 

Maybe I should see about borrowing it for a weekend and finding some granite road cut for a test. What size hole do you need a test for? 3/8th?

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I have a 3/8th bit from work. maybe I should see how many holes I can get from a full charge battery and how long a hole takes.

 

maybe I can drill some holes at index LTW? (kidding!) Some river rock.

 

Oh yeah. I have never placed a bolt. How deep does the hole have to be?

Edited by genepires

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id be surprised if you got more than 4 holes on a full charge. my hilti te6a 36v gets about 11 holes per charge.

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Gene, if you could sink it 5" or so, that would be a great test.

 

Alex, 4 holes is fine...its a really light drill and the batteries are pretty light...I could easily see packing 4 batteries up...

 

Its for my son...I'm about to unleash him... ;-) Weight is a HUGE concern...

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tell me what crag you're setting him loose on and I'll share my proprietary expertise! :)

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I'm pretty sure there will be a press release once the sponsorship contracts are finalized.

 

Seriously though, is the weight a concern because he'll be leading with the tool? 36v battery on a waist belt takes the sting out of operating the tool.

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no sponshorships...except my job/paycheck...

 

don't want him to be beholden to anybody...

 

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Yeah. The TE6A with battery is immensely heavy. 2 batteries and drill and bits and bolts easily weighs 50-60 pounds. Rad and I know from humping this shit into the various crags last 4-5 years, now we understand why the gridbolters stay so close to the roads! So I know how it is. I think best bet is to take it and try it out on random boulder at 38 or Index. If you get several good holes - tight, clean, 3+ inch deep - out of a single battery, it's worth it. I used both powers 5-piece bolts and Fixe and other stuff, but for Powers especially the deeper holes are needed. Then you should have him take a torque wrench and torque to the correct tightness for the bolt. The Powers heads shear off pretty easy so the torque wrench is a must for safe placement of Powers bolts.

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Batteries can be almost as expensive as the drill, so I wouldn't plan on a lot of batteries. It's important to take good care of batteries or they will crap out on you.

 

50-60lbs sounds too high. The TE6A system that Alex and I have might be 15-20lbs with drill + 1 battery.

 

Weight might not be as much of a factor as you think. You could pull the drill up to a stance on a tagline from if bolting on lead. Dangle it below you if coming in from above. Either way, you shouldn't have to make free moves carrying the drill, though that can speed things up at times.

 

Some of the experienced developers on here have creative solutions that separate the drill from its batteries. Maybe they will chime in too.

 

BTW, when I bought my drill used I tested it on a granite erratic and was able to drill 12 holes on a full charge in less than ten minutes. From experience, I can tell you that trying to drill with a crappy drill and/or crappy battery is no fun.

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I've used the TE6 and it is a good tool but maybe in some respects overkill. In nice soft granite it will drill more holes on a charge than one probably should in a day.Most of us are going to make some mistakes anyway but if you try to place 20 bolts at a time (and I've seen 30 2 1/4 wedge anchors installed on a single charge with the TE6) there will probably be a lot of misfires.

 

 

 

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I've used the TE6 and it is a good tool but maybe in some respects overkill. In nice soft granite it will drill more holes on a charge than one probably should in a day.Most of us are going to make some mistakes anyway but if you try to place 20 bolts at a time (and I've seen it done with the TE6 ) there will probably be a lot of misfires.

 

Good point Matt. IMHO placing a bolt is an act that should not be taken lightly as it permanently alters the rock. Before placing a bolt I try to address the following questions:

 

- Is the line worth developing (aka will others want to climb it)?

- Does it need to be a lead route (some routes in other parts of the country are top-rope only)

- Is there other protection available that could eliminate the need for a bolt?

- Is bolt placement consistent with the traditions of the crag under development?

- Is the bolt being placed with subsequent climbers in mind (preferred IMHO) or only to suit the needs of the FA party (selfish IMHO).

- Would the selected bolt placement adequately protect the leader from hitting the ground, a ledge, or another nasty obstacle?

- Would the bolt protect moves that need to be protected?

- Is the bolt being placed so that people of average height can reach it from a reasonable clipping stance?

- Is the placement a reasonable distance from protection before and after that point in the climb?

- Would the bolt place the rope and/or quickdraws so that they obstruct a key feature needed for freeclimbing?

- Is the bolt being placed in line with other protection so that rope drag will be minimized?

- Is the bolt being placed away from rock features, such as roofs and ledges, that could cause significant rope drag or other problems?

- Would the bolt be in solid rock away from weak points?

- Would the bolt be near a sharp edge that could cut/damage the rope or a quickdraw?

 

Placing bolts using a power drill is the easiest and fastest part of route development, and it's one of the last steps I take.

But that's me. I'm sure others have other opinions.

 

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My thought was that there are probably some lighter drills out there that will function well if mass amount of power is not your #1 criteria.

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hey Rudi I also have a gas powered ryobi impact drill you might want to try out

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Rad -

 

I think that is a great list of points that should be made in the assesment/decision process.

Those ideals are paramount in responsible bolting whether it be with the advantage of a power tool or doing it the hard way by hand.

Indeed the placing of any fixed gear should not be done without serious consideration.

Very nice and great food for thought.

 

:tup:

 

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I've used the TE6 and it is a good tool but maybe in some respects overkill. In nice soft granite it will drill more holes on a charge than one probably should in a day.Most of us are going to make some mistakes anyway but if you try to place 20 bolts at a time (and I've seen it done with the TE6 ) there will probably be a lot of misfires.

 

Good point Matt. IMHO placing a bolt is an act that should not be taken lightly as it permanently alters the rock. Before placing a bolt I try to address the following questions:

 

- Is the line worth developing (aka will others want to climb it)?

- Does it need to be a lead route (some routes in other parts of the country are top-rope only)

- Is there other protection available that could eliminate the need for a bolt?

- Is bolt placement consistent with the traditions of the crag under development?

- Is the bolt being placed with subsequent climbers in mind (preferred IMHO) or only to suit the needs of the FA party (selfish IMHO).

- Would the selected bolt placement adequately protect the leader from hitting the ground, a ledge, or another nasty obstacle?

- Would the bolt protect moves that need to be protected?

- Is the bolt being placed so that people of average height can reach it from a reasonable clipping stance?

- Is the placement a reasonable distance from protection before and after that point in the climb?

- Would the bolt place the rope and/or quickdraws so that they obstruct a key feature needed for freeclimbing?

- Is the bolt being placed in line with other protection so that rope drag will be minimized?

- Is the bolt being placed away from rock features, such as roofs and ledges, that could cause significant rope drag or other problems?

- Would the bolt be in solid rock away from weak points?

- Would the bolt be near a sharp edge that could cut/damage the rope or a quickdraw?

 

Placing bolts using a power drill is the easiest and fastest part of route development, and it's one of the last steps I take.

But that's me. I'm sure others have other opinions.

 

No bolting arguments/discussions please...i'm only asking about the drill itself...i've put in enough routes already...not a noob here...

 

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Rad -

 

I think that is a great list of points that should be made in the assesment/decision process.

Those ideals are paramount in responsible bolting whether it be with the advantage of a power tool or doing it the hard way by hand.

Indeed the placing of any fixed gear should not be done without serious consideration.

Very nice and great food for thought.

 

:tup:

very nice, but start another thread...

 

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Wow, no problem buddy.

Apologize for the drift but we all know your not a noob nor was it implied.

Cheers and have fun out there.

Tyson geBauer

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I've used the TE6 and it is a good tool but maybe in some respects overkill. In nice soft granite it will drill more holes on a charge than one probably should in a day.Most of us are going to make some mistakes anyway but if you try to place 20 bolts at a time (and I've seen it done with the TE6 ) there will probably be a lot of misfires.

 

Good point Matt. IMHO placing a bolt is an act that should not be taken lightly as it permanently alters the rock. Before placing a bolt I try to address the following questions:

 

- Is the line worth developing (aka will others want to climb it)?

- Does it need to be a lead route (some routes in other parts of the country are top-rope only)

- Is there other protection available that could eliminate the need for a bolt?

- Is bolt placement consistent with the traditions of the crag under development?

- Is the bolt being placed with subsequent climbers in mind (preferred IMHO) or only to suit the needs of the FA party (selfish IMHO).

- Would the selected bolt placement adequately protect the leader from hitting the ground, a ledge, or another nasty obstacle?

- Would the bolt protect moves that need to be protected?

- Is the bolt being placed so that people of average height can reach it from a reasonable clipping stance?

- Is the placement a reasonable distance from protection before and after that point in the climb?

- Would the bolt place the rope and/or quickdraws so that they obstruct a key feature needed for freeclimbing?

- Is the bolt being placed in line with other protection so that rope drag will be minimized?

- Is the bolt being placed away from rock features, such as roofs and ledges, that could cause significant rope drag or other problems?

- Would the bolt be in solid rock away from weak points?

- Would the bolt be near a sharp edge that could cut/damage the rope or a quickdraw?

 

Placing bolts using a power drill is the easiest and fastest part of route development, and it's one of the last steps I take.

But that's me. I'm sure others have other opinions.

 

No bolting arguments/discussions please...i'm only asking about the drill itself...i've put in enough routes already...not a noob here...

 

I'm just responding to Matt's comment. Feel free to ignore my post if you wish.

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.

Edited by Rad

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I'm just responding to Matt's comment. Feel free to ignore my post if you wish.

 

My comment was intended to suggest that there must be lighter rigs out there that are worthy of consideration. I've used the TE6 and it is a monster. It is more than I needed and the pack gets very heavy indeed when you carry one of those and a bag of bolts and hangers and maybe some chains and ...

 

Does anybody know about lesser options other than a hand drill? The old Flintstone rig is not a bad option lots of times, but what other drills are out there?

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