billcoe Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 pfft, cost?....they could keep the dirigibles floating indefinitely with just 1/2 of the hot air we give off in spray..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjd Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Connecting the 2 largest cities in California with high speed rail is a great idea. It'll be even better when a line extends all the way to Vancouver BC. Plenty of people will use it, the same way plenty of people use high speed rail in other countries. Rail is fast, and cheaper than both air and road travel especially when external costs are taken into account. Considering the fossil fuel and environmental crises, the high-speed rail option is a no-brainer. It sounds like a great idea, but it's expensive as hell. Depending on what other places you have in mind, they subsidize the sh1t out of it and we can't afford that in California. Also, they have much higher population density (i.e. Japan). There's a reason why private capital doesn't want to get involved in this without major guarantees. It's not a "no-brainer" in a state with serious budget deficits as it is. We are out of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The overall cost of our current interstate highway system is about $425 billion, making it the "largest public works program since the Pyramids" 70% of this has been paid for primarily by taxes (not tolls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjd Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Most toll roads are either built with public dollars and/or are financed with federal lines of credit. Maintenance and services are usually paid by taxpayers. I'm not a fan of the so-called "public-private" toll roads, I was simply pointing out that there's plenty of economic incentive and capital to build them. I didn't think it was fair to say we would have no highway system without subsidies. Not only will that rail line provide an economic benefit but it'll be cheaper when taking into account all costs of transportation. The numbers simply don't support this statement. If airlines weren't bailed out, there would be no airlines. How many times has Southwest been bailed out? Virgin? Jet Blue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 private capital never gets involved in large projects if there is no government guarantee so it's not really meaningful in this particular case. Do you know what is really expensive? people driving their cars where they could take mass transit that is, in the long term, much cheaper. Your deficit is mostly a revenue problem, not a spending problem (although it could be improved as always). There is no better time to spend on infrastructure than during a depression, especially when that infrastructure will be essential to deal with the fossil fuel and environmental crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 How many times has Southwest been bailed out? Virgin? Jet Blue? Fine, you'd have a few airlines left thanks to subsidized fuel and airport infrastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Not only will that rail line provide an economic benefit but it'll be cheaper when taking into account all costs of transportation. The numbers simply don't support this statement. The mayors' numbers do support it: http://www.usmayors.org/highspeedrail/documents/report.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjd Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 A revenue problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjd Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 "Therefore, if the CHSRA operating costs do approach international rates of 40 to 50 cents per passenger mile, as opposed to the Authority’s “projected” rate of 10 cents, future Legislatures and future Administrations will have to provide annual subsidies in the range of billions of dollars." http://www.cc-hsr.org/assets/pdf/NFOS.pdf "The California High-Speed Rail Authority’s forecasts of demand and ridership for a new San Francisco-to-Los Angeles high-speed train are not reliable because they are based on an inconsistent model, according to a new study by researchers at the Institute of Transportation Studies at the University of California, Berkeley (ITS Berkeley)." http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2010/07/01/high_speed_rail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjd Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 http://reason.org/news/show/californians-being-taken-for-a-ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Seattle's really takes the cake with grumpy assholes though. It's probably cuz of the rain. I went to LA last week and it's like Sesame Street down there compared with Seattle. It's true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 oh dear, a shocker: "free market zealots claim that public infrastructure project will be ruin for all of us" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 "Here are a bunch of people that agree with me. This proves my point" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 "Here are a bunch of people that agree with me. This proves my point" And it's so cute how everyone here has such an interest in Cali all of a sudden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 We should build a bullet train from Everett to Kent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 And it's so cute how everyone here has such an interest in Cali all of a sudden 'Cause they're tired of living in a moldy backwater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 And it's so cute how everyone here has such an interest in Cali all of a sudden 'Cause they're tired of living in a moldy backwater? Courtney and Prole -- Huge L.A. Fans!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Summertime, and the living is easy. No wait, it sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 And it's so cute how everyone here has such an interest in Cali all of a sudden 'Cause they're tired of living in a moldy backwater? Courtney and Prole -- Huge L.A. Fans!! Who needs rain, when you can have a brown cloud of smog hovering over your head like a stale, rotten-egg fart that never goes away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Rain doesn't suck, it spits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 The funny thing is, it's totally worth it. LMAO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Summertime*, and the living is easy. No wait, it sucks. *FACT: calendar summer doesn't start until June 20. What are you - anti-science or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 And love that LA tap water! Yummmmm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 *FACT: calendar summer doesn't start until June 20. What are you - anti-science or something? That this graphic approximates what's going on up there right now closely enough that you have refer to calendar summer is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 guys. guys. guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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