Perry Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Ok, I know this is going to sound stupid. Is it better to bring water or fuel to melt snow at Muir? I ask, because I went to Muir a while back and people were spending a good amount of time melting snow for water. The was a group heading down with several extra gallons of water to spare that they packed up. Yes - I know that water will freeze, but they didn't seem to have an issue. What if you packed in hot water, insulated it and slept with it for extra measure? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) It is FAR more weight efficient to bring a stove rather than enough water for a trip. For a three day trip you would need at least 18 liters of water which weighs 40 pounds. Nobody in their right mind brings more than 2 or 3 liters. Bring a stove, yes it is an onerous task, but it is what it is. Several extra gallons? At 8 pounds a pop that is a lot of extra weight. Not a bright move. Why didn't they a) dump out their containers, or b)leave it at Muir so other climbers could use it. Makes no kind of sense to me. I have heard of climbers who speed climb Rainier cache water at Muir so they don't have to carry much, but they do it CTC in like 4 hours. Edited May 5, 2012 by DPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wetslide Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 It seems obvious to experienced people but I guess your question is valid. But it kinda seems like a troll. Do people really do that? Pardon my surprise but that just seems plain dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Do people really do that? Pardon my surprise but that just seems plain dumb. I tried my hand at guiding for a season. One client showed up with four gallon containers of water tied to her pack. I asked her why she would do that. "To drink of course!" I explained that we melt our water from the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Perry, Typically (at least from May through Sept) I bring a stove and a filter. I only boil water for dinner, and just melt the snow and filter it for drinking. In the winter however, I do heat up more water so it can warm me in my sleeping bag and last longer before freezing. Boiling water takes much longer than just melting the snow and filtering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 It seems obvious to experienced people but I guess your question is valid. But it kinda seems like a troll. Do people really do that? Pardon my surprise but that just seems plain dumb. It does seem pretty dumb looking back. It was my group who packed in hot water. We were young and didn't have all that hi tech gear back then - just our Gortex, poly, rented boots and crampons and a ton of borrowed climbing gear from the "experienced" ones in the group - who also packed in water. We left our extra water with the guys in the shack, who were very happy to have what we had extra to spare. They looked pretty ill prepared to melt snow. Our backs were very young then and packing in water seemed like a good idea. Pack in your water and you'll have what you need when you get to Muir. No special stove needed. No wasted time making water. No fuel needed. Several of the group ended up with a late late start and rushed up to Muir in high winds. They were exhausted by they time they arrived and joined us, which was just before it was time to head out to the summit. Yes, we were young dumb and strong trying to summit on a 3 day weekend. I'm older now and able to put together the right gear and do it "right" this time. That's why I'm researching now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I'm older now and able to put together the right gear and do it "right" this time. That's why I'm researching now. This might have some good tips: http://www.summitpost.org/so-you-want-to-climb-mt-rainier/507227 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamstress Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Melt and filter is the fastest and lightest way to go. Even for cooking - melt, filter, put back in pot. Skip the long boils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 A black trash bag melts snow quickly on sunny spring days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 A black trash bag melts snow quickly on sunny spring days. Is this a serious response? I know of the and tricks Does the water go in or over the trash bag? Does this produce any reasonable amount of water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) A black trash bag melts snow quickly on sunny spring days. Is this a serious response? Does this produce any reasonable amount of water? Yes, this had been done for a long time. It depends on how sunny/hot out it is. Snow goes in the black bag, the black bag absorbs heat and melts the water inside. The water will taste bad. It will not replace a stove, you still need to bring a stove and fuel. This is a passive way of creating more water to save fuel. Edited May 9, 2012 by DPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 A black trash bag melts snow quickly on sunny spring days. Is this a serious response? Does this produce any reasonable amount of water? The water will taste bad. The reason it tastes bad is because of who-knows-what leaching out of that black plastic into your water, probably greatly increased by UV degradation. I doubt that shit can be good for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) A black trash bag melts snow quickly on sunny spring days. Is this a serious response? Does this produce any reasonable amount of water? The water will taste bad. The reason it tastes bad is because of who-knows-what leaching out of that black plastic into your water, probably greatly increased by UV degradation. I doubt that shit can be good for you. This technique was described in my 4th edition of Freedom of the Hills. The product was described as 'not water' but 'melted snow'. Gene had a great idea (was even printed in Climbing magazine under the Tech Tips). Wrap a Nagene water in black tape and stuff it with snow. It will melt and not taste nearly as bad as the black garbage bag. I have a black nylon water bottle carrier that hangs off my waist belt that accomplishes the same thing. Edited May 10, 2012 by DPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caverpilot Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 The climbing rangers on Rainier use black 50 gallon drums with hoses to their shelter. Personally, I fill my Katydyn Base Camp (gravity-fed water filter) up with snow and hang it (when possible) when leaving high camp for a day tour or climb. As long as the sun shines for a few hours, I have lots of water waiting for me when I get back. Lately, I've used it, instead of extra water, about 1/2 to 2/3 the way up a climb. By time I ski back from the summit, I have an extra liter or two! A few weeks back I compared it to a black bag - the water filter wins hands down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 The climbing rangers on Rainier use black 50 gallon drums with hoses to their shelter. Not sure if I read this or someone related the story, but a dead mouse was found in the water barrel once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Not surprising, they've found all sorts of shit in Portland's open-air reservoirs, like empty paint cans and dead birds and stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 mmm... this water tastes like snaffle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 mmm... this water tastes like snaffle! With just a hint of hantavirus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 melt with stove and purify with chemical treatments like aquamira worked for me for decades. Filters are not required and just too plain heavy for the job needed. Maybe if I was in a foreign and filthy place (varcas valley on aconchossua comes to mind) then a filter would be worth the weight. I used a plastic bag to store snow near the stove for melting. The sun would warm up the snow to a slurpy mess, getting us halfway to water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 melt with stove and purify with chemical treatments like aquamira worked for me for decades. Filters are not required and just too plain heavy for the job needed. Maybe if I was in a foreign and filthy place (varcas valley on aconchossua comes to mind) then a filter would be worth the weight. I used a plastic bag to store snow near the stove for melting. The sun would warm up the snow to a slurpy mess, getting us halfway to water. A filter is not too heavy for the dog route on Rainier. If I am worried about weight, I will use ClO2 tablets. You have to wait a while to drink though. This works OK on alpine starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.