SeanO Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Apparently First Ascent is now making camping gear, including the Katabatic tent. It's a four-season two person tent that weighs 10.5 lbs. I haven't been on any expeditions to Everest, but to me that seems really heavy for a two man 4-season tent... Hilleberg's 2 man mountain tents weigh 4-8 lbs, Biblers weigh 4-6, North Face's around 8, etc. Thoughts? They're also selling 3-season tents and sleeping bags, but nothing looks particularly compelling to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Watts Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The First Ascent line of Tents and sleeping bags are vastly underwhelming. Heavy double wall tents at over 10lbs? No thank you. Sleeping bags that don't even give details on their fill weight? Pathetic attempt to enter the gear field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris54 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) After looking at the specs and the look of the product I wonder who their marketing this too. If this stuff is really designed by guides as they say. Im sure they would bach at some of these specs. I wondering if there target group is car camper that want to look cool. Edited April 5, 2012 by chris54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanO Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I don't understand who they're being marketed to either. There are so many better options out there that I sorta feel like I'm missing something... I find it ironic that someone like Ed Viesturs would put his name on these products. Even as a "conventional" mountaineer, he had Mountain Hardwear build a special lightweight tent for him; he used to share one lightweight sleeping bag with his climbing partner or used a half bag, etc. I just can't imagine a guide choosing to use the FA gear. Lack of fill weights on the down bags is disconcerting. Looks like they're really trying to hit the budget segment with a $500 -30 down bag. Doesn't look like they're EN rated so you're likely going to get cold well above -30. Dubious at best to think that you can buy a new -30 down bag and stay warm at that temp when competitors charge $200+ extra for a bag of equivalent rating with listed fill weights. Edited April 4, 2012 by whitenoise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastBastard Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 the fill weights are on the bags - 850 fill. Pertex shell, look like decent bags. the tents are not so spectacular, I agree. I kind of like the alchemist pack though, looks nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanO Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 The fill power is 850, but there's no mention of fill weight (in oz). For example, the Feathered Friends Ptarmigan -25F bag lists 850+ fill power, with 35.5oz fill weight. I agree, the Alchemist pack doesn't look bad, I'd like to see one in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearbreeder Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 you should be able to ask them about the fill weight if you call in ... whether they are en-rated or not i have no clue took a look at the alchemist, its like many other zipered packs, nothing special ... the fabric seems quite durable though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 No guide I've ever worked with would use that -30 sleeping bag on Denali, early season. The collar looks like an afterthought. Compare to the collars on Feathered Friends or Western Mountaineering bags. Hell, the collars on FF & WM 0-degree bags are more substantial. The draft tube on the Karakoram looks wimpy, too. Total claimed weight of the Karakoram = 3 pounds 15 ounces. By comparison a FF Peregrine weighs 3 pounds 13 ounces. Without knowing the fill weight or the dimensions it is hard to compare. The dimensions are important because they determine the volume that the down must occupy. For example, a narrower bag will require less down to achieve the same loft [compare FF Ptarmigan (35.5oz) with the Peregrine (37.3oz)]. *Assuming* the Peregrine is identical in dimensions to the FA Karakoram -30, the fill weight of the FA bag should be about 39 ounces since both bags use the same shell fabric and 20d interior fabric. That is within the range of the respectable for a bag of that temperature rating. The WM Puma's fill weight clocks in at just under 37oz. Depending on the dimensions, an extra 2oz of 850-fill might justify a rating of -30... But fill weight, fill power, and fabric do not comprehensively determine a bag's warmth. The cut, the design of the hood, the collar, and the draft tube also play an important role. These features do not appear to be strengths of the Karakoram's design, at least at first glance. Plus, anyone who is going to Denali or the Himalayas should understand that their sleeping bag is their second most important piece of gear. This is not where economizing is justified. Save money elsewhere, but your sleeping bag is worth every penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 In a market full of good, high quality, options, I'm not sure why anybody would be interested in Eddie Bauer's mass marketed crap. It seems more likely an attempt to cater to people who buy new gear and use it once a year, and are thus interested in saving a few bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A. Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 If there's a market for it somebody will jump in and make some money selling it. Nothing wrong with that, if you don't like their crap, don't buy it. If you haven't noticed there's an even bigger market for even crappier products, which has made the family that owns wal-mart extremely wealthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 You can get EggMcMuffins at Walmart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplutodh1 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I had seen several prototypes in photos on the First Ascent Facebook page and had hoped they would launch at the same time - the Katabatic is a bit odd to me as well. Sure, maybe for these guys who are on the FA 'guide crew' testing these things out, flying around the globe for 'work' - but at that weight, it makes little to no sense for the majority of mountaineering people. That said, I did try and get more detail to see if their single wall tent was actually going to come to market - apparently they are testing it on Everest now (or so their marketing folks claim). Today they posted another photo on FB that looked like maybe the singlewall. Unfortunately not much of an angle on it - but based on previous photos I've seen, might be an updated version of it (the tent closest to the photographer here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riot1013 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I would definitely have to disagree with First Ascent's Gear being "crap" as some have said. Their clothing is every bit as good as other brands out there and generally cheaper. Now I can't speak for their tent or sleeping bag but the Alchemist 30 pack that my wife owns is spectacular as is the Big Tahoma pack. Their gloves are some of the best I have used and the Peak XV jacket might be one of the best deals I have seen, even at the newer price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplutodh1 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I would definitely have to disagree with First Ascent's Gear being "crap" as some have said. Their clothing is every bit as good as other brands out there and generally cheaper. Agreed - I've not had any issues with my FA clothing. Last two years EB honored their deep discount coupons/sale days on First Ascent stuff. Unfortunately they aren't doing that any longer from what I can tell. Scored some awesome deals with 40% off sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanO Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Agreed on the clothing in general -- the Peak XV by all accounts is a great jacket. But this recent foray into camping gear is very lackluster compared with alternatives, even marginally more expensive alternatives, and that's the main thrust of the thread. Edited April 12, 2012 by Ferum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplutodh1 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Looks like more work on the tents - they just posted that they are out at Bellevue Downtown park (at least that's my guess based on the photo) testing out tents the past few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 What are they testing? To see if they can survive a Kemper Freeman temper tantrum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 What are they testing? To see if they can survive a Kemper Freeman temper tantrum? Occupy Bellevue, with heavy tents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplutodh1 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Guess I should clarify - they are 'reviewing' the new tents... whatever that means. Most of these in the photo are not 'for sale' from what I can see. Looks like second tent is possibly a smaller Katabatic and the 3rd looks like a singlewall maybe. But yeah - begs the question... why are they doing it there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanO Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 But yeah - begs the question... why are they doing it there? Answer 1: Because Eddie Bauer's HQ is located in Bellevue. Answer 2: Because Bellevue likely embodies everything about the target market for FA gear and RMI clientele. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 But yeah - begs the question... why are they doing it there? Answer 2: Because Bellevue likely embodies everything about the target market for FA gear and RMI clientele. Yup. That would be my take as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Saw a smallish 1-2 person`ish 1st ascent dealy last summer in Mt. Adams Cold Springs lot before typical weekend onslaught. Yellow & white similar to these but not the lemon-lime neon green-yellow. similar vestibule look, think it was single-walled, seemed like it could (emphasis) clock in around 4#s. That has some market if it is mountain-worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplutodh1 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Saw a smallish 1-2 person`ish 1st ascent dealy last summer in Mt. Adams Cold Springs lot before typical weekend onslaught. Yellow & white similar to these but not the lemon-lime neon green-yellow. similar vestibule look, think it was single-walled, seemed like it could (emphasis) clock in around 4#s. That has some market if it is mountain-worthy. Yup - that's the tent I'd been watching for. Apparently their single wall tent is targeted Spring 2013 and they just posted a 'sneak peek' photo. I bought a Bibler Ahwahnee off a guy on Craigslist so probably not looking to replace it but open to giving these a look when they come out (as long as they aren't friggin 10 lbs!) This one looks bigger than the photos I've seen but might be the angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastBastard Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 that looks similar in size to the Fitzroy, and a massive vestibule. 3 poles + big = not too light. Looks bomber though. and is it just the photo/my eyes that that's a white tent? white tent, on snow, seems like a dumb idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 that looks similar in size to the Fitzroy, and a massive vestibule. 3 poles + big = not too light. Looks bomber though. and is it just the photo/my eyes that that's a white tent? white tent, on snow, seems like a dumb idea. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about the color choice. Not sure what they were thinking with that. I suppose it would be bright inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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