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prole

What's Up With Ft. Lewis?

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fuck the elephants, what this thread needs is a soundtrack!

[video:youtube]

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the Vietnam War( which was also started, by the US, based on a complete and utter lie about an attack on the USS Tonkin,

 

Agree of course about the lies that precipitated the expansion of the Vietnam conflict but, not the detail...

 

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq120-1.htm

 

I have enjoyed the thoughtful parts of the discussion.

 

And the elephants. Let's be fair, here

 

Oh yes, and the elephants!

 

d

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fuck the elephants, what this thread needs is a soundtrack!

[video:youtube]

 

What is it good for? Conquering and subjugating people. Worked for the Romans fine.

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fuck the elephants, what this thread needs is a soundtrack!

[video:youtube]

 

What is it good for? Conquering and subjugating people. Worked for the Romans fine.

 

Fuck yeah. The human race will do much better when we discover other intelligent species to dominate. We need more intergalactic warfare.

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What is it good for? Conquering and subjugating people. Worked for the Romans fine.

which romans? :) war transformed rome from a relatively decent republican democracy to an autocratic and increasingly unstable empire - reckon there were winners and losers through that evolution, just like there have been in this country as we've gone through the same damn process :P

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Fuck yeah. The human race will do much better when we discover other intelligent species to dominate. We need more intergalactic warfare.

'specially if our enemies look like this! :)...

original.jpg

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Fuck yeah. The human race will do much better when we discover other intelligent species to dominate. We need more intergalactic warfare.

'specially if our enemies look like this! :)...

original.jpg

 

I would have given her the defense codes, too. What can I say?

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The elephants are pretty awesome

 

There have been some thoughtful parts of the conversation mixed in with the rhetoric.

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I need to round up all 5 republicans on this site, with their guns, and drive down to Cali to shoot our webhost.

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...the Vietnam War( which was also started, by the US, based on a complete and utter lie about an attack on the USS Tonkin, an incident which never happened, a total fabrication...
A student of history you are clearly not, Mtguide. You make reference to a USS Tonkin; no such vessel exists, nor has ever been listed, in the Naval Vessel Register of the US Navy. The ship to which you are referring as the "USS Tonkin" is actually the USS Maddox, an Allen Sumner-class destroyer which began service near the end of WW2 in the PTO. The Maddox was struck from the Naval Vessel Register in the early 1970s, transferred to Taiwan and renamed, and ultimately scrapped in 1985.

 

Regarding your claim that the incident in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened and is a total fabrication, your information is flawed and your understanding of the event is skewed. There were two (2) incidents in the Gulf of Tonkin in early August of 1964. The first one occurred on August 2, and is undisputed by all sides to the conflict. At the end of the day, one PRVN torpedo boat was left dead in the water, the other two were damaged, and four PRVN sailors were killed and six injured. Maybe it's just me, but I think that with stats like that, it's kind of hard to say that it never happened. :rolleyes:

 

The second incident "occurred" on August 4, and is now largely accepted as the result of false radar images at long range being interpreted as approaching enemy vessels. Indeed, there was no attack by the PRVN Navy on August 4, and this has been confirmed by correspondence from the Vietnamese government after the cessation of hostilities. In addition, the NSA admitted in the mid-2000s that the August 4 incident never happened. However, for you to state unequivocably that nothing ever happened in early August in the Gulf of Tonkin is simply ludicrous and a disservice to history.

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However, for you to state unequivocably that nothing ever happened in early August in the Gulf of Tonkin is simply ludicrous and a disservice to history.

meh, it's all counting *bzzzt!* hairs. the 1st tonkin incident was still nothing defensible as a casus belli - american warships assisting south vietnam's navy engage in hostilities on the north's territory getting shot at seems pretty defensible, from the n vietnamese perspective. even if the 2nd incident had occured it should have been lawful for n vietnam to defend itself in such a way. what did occur doesn't really count for shit. "there's no there there" :)

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ivan,

You confuse the meaning of my post. Mtguide says nothing ever happened in the GoT, that it was all a lie, and a total fabrication. That is untrue; something very real did happen. Was it enough to go to war over and get 58,000+ US soldiers killed along with millions more VN, Cambodian, and Laotian civilians? I agree with you; no, it was not. But that is not the argument being made here.

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You can find the other ship with the Maddox during the incident, the USS Turner Joy berthed right in Bremerton as a tourist destination.

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as a history teacher i of course flinch every time i hear a "uss tonkin" type malapropism but have inevitably become inured to them and find whaling on those who utter such silly-yet-honestly-felt atrocities akin to clubbing retarded baby seals :)

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HappyCamper,

The USS Turner Joy was not involved in the "real" GoT incident. Only the Maddox (discounting the F-8 Crusaders) gave fire against, and took fire from, the three PRVN torpedo boats on August 2, 1964. The Turner Joy was involved (along with the Maddox) in the August 4 shelling of the phantom radar images.

 

And yes, I have spent many hours on board the Turner Joy in Bremerton. Taking a seat in one of the main gun turrets was a "joy"... :)

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as a history teacher i of course flinch every time i hear a "uss tonkin" type malapropism but have inevitably become inured to them and find whaling on those who utter such silly-yet-honestly-felt atrocities akin to clubbing retarded baby seals :)
:lmao:

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as a history teacher i of course flinch every time i hear a "uss tonkin" type malapropism but have inevitably become inured to them and find whaling on those who utter such silly-yet-honestly-felt atrocities akin to clubbing retarded baby seals :)
:lmao:

 

clubbing_seals.jpg

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I need to round up all 5 republicans on this site, with their guns, and drive down to Cali to shoot our webhost.

 

Well you could always relocate CC hosting to the DPRK.

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Thank you all for the clarification, I stand corrected. I was hasty and just put down what my faulty memory popped out. Next time I'll be more careful. And I'm glad to know the actual facts, and that the incident was, arguably, a very questionable reason for going to war.

 

Sobo, I think I may have been confused by what I heard some years back, about the Aug. 4 incident, which the NSA said never happened. Again, thanks for the full info.

Edited by Mtguide

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come on now, mtguide - this here is the internets - you can't admit a mistake here!!! :)

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