allison Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Ok, all this talk of taxation leads me to another question: In a perfect world, what services should the governments (from local to federal and all in between) of our great nation provide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted November 17, 2002 Author Share Posted November 17, 2002 Here are a few of mine: Yes: k-12 and higher education (public only, no vouchers) national parks, forests, wildernesses, etc universal health care day care breaking up monopolistic businesses trade tariffs libraries and museums No: stimulating the economy through war or other military action getting in the middle of labor disputes through Excecutive Order liquor stores faith-based anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 quote: (public only, no vouchers) Hmm...why is it taht people aer soo aligned partisan wise? like why the hell not vouchers? jsut because it is a conservative idea? i knwo you are gonna rpech some separation of church and state rhetoric, but that jsut doesnt cut it...any new thoughts on teh mater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 I see NO REASON why the government should pay for child care at ALL! i know, how unprogressive of me but seriously if you are going to have children you have to make the sacrifices that it takes to care for them. Child care is a sham. Hire a friend, or depend on a grandparent and if you can't do that RAISE YOUR OWN CHILDREN. seriously, I tried to let go of this, and I just could not... it felt so horribly wrong to try to send my children to daycare all day so I chose to quit working. It was fine when the were with Tex or Jason, but I could not see paying 300.00$ a week to hardly see them. I don't understand how people can do that and call it child rearing. If you don't want to spend your TIME with children please do not have them. People wonder why "kids today" misbehaive and are so uncontrolable etc. it is my oppinion that institutionalized child care is a major factor. I found that when (for a month) I didn't see my kids all day I was more likely to give into them and not punish them or call them to task over their behavior. Because I missed them so much and I just wanted to be with them. I see this all arround me with kids at school. I am not saying there are not exceptions, because I am sure there are. But then I am not a verry good feminist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 quote: trade tariffs if you want our unemployment rates to go throught the roof, this is a good idea... but wait...welfare will take care of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 amen muffy...i whole-heartedly agree with you...if you cannot take care of your children dont have them, but doesn't this also beg the question of having tax deductions for children as well? as people should only have kids if they can take care of them...(financially, physically emotionally etc.) it is an interesting thought though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Sharpless Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Bravo Muffy. There is nothing more important for any of us - men or women - than raising the next generation. Though it may not be right, it has most often been women who take the lead (and the burdens) of this. I now have two teenage daughters who are wonderful people and the best (and most lasting) thisng I've ever done and my woife gets most of the credit for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted November 18, 2002 Author Share Posted November 18, 2002 Vouchers encourage people to go outside of the public school sytem. If people are involved in their schools, as in their communities, it makes them better and keeps them better-funded among other things, making them a more valuable asset to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 nice post Muffy. As a single mid-20's climbing guy I consider myself an authority on the matter too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 AT LEAST NOW YOU KNOW what it will take to be a good parent when the time comes. Thease are things that you realy have to start thinking about now. Before you meet a woman you fall in love with... before an unplanned pregnancy. You should only NOT be concerned if you are COMPLETELY unable to have children. The next generation effects us all. It is important to think about the future, and if you want children, a little thought and planning and saving now, can save a lot of frustration in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 FS, Public education needs to be thought of as a means to benefit the entire community, not just your own kids. Society benefits with a better educated populace. Vouchers suck money away from the already woefully underfunded public school system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 quote: Vouchers encourage people to go outside of the public school sytem. If people are involved in their schools, as in their communities, it makes them better and keeps them better-funded among other things, making them a more valuable asset to all. uhmmm... mabe if the public school system delivered waht teh private schools were offering, this wouldn't be a problem... also the reason public schoolin gis underfunded is not because of vouchers rather our government not putting money into them...if you want more $$$ in the public schools petition your reps to put more in... ifpublic schools are not satisfactory, we have the right to seek out another alternative and we should not be punished for it financially... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fence Sitter: ifpublic schools are not satisfactory, we have the right to seek out another alternative and we should not be punished for it financially... You are not punished for seeking out an alternative. You just have to still pay for the public education system like everyone else who pays taxes. Public education is for the public good. You may or may not choose to also use it as daycare for your kid. Should we set up a voucher system so people who don't have kids can get their money back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Sharpless Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Productivity (output per worker) is highest in the US. France Canada and Sweden are close but lower. But that's because in the USA the average person works their tail off compared to the rest of the G7-8 world. No 35 days of holiday plus 5 weeks vacation here, or 37.5 hour workweek here. Maybe that's why they do more sport climbing in Europe - lots of leisure time and the belief that you can get something for nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Wrong Rick. When you look at the hours worked vs output the US is not at the top and drops to about 5th. We have high productivity because we work more. When compared to Sweden, France, Germany and others their productivity per hours worked is higher. They choose to put some energy in to other portions of their lives, we put it into our military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Yup, welfare. Welfare. Welfare. Welfare. That felt good to say. There's not enough to go around esp. after Clinton gutted the system. Of course, yes, you and the histrionic media can point to egregious abuses and hoot and holler about that, but most of the folks who need it deserve it and many fall through the cracks. Most of my family works in education and social services--they're out there in the classrooms and streets so they know of what they speak. Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 I would also say they are getting something out of - not nothing - but a more meaningful life, less stress, more time with their families, better health, etc. It's not all about money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jim: It's not all about money. Hell yeah! Preach on, brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Jim, forgive me if I have misunderstood, but are you saying EVERYONE should be on welfare? or do you just think that as Americans we could repriorotize and perhaps make better use of our time, there for need to spend less of it at work? [ 11-18-2002, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: yaya ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Yaya, No, I'm just a slow typer and my comment was a tag on to my previous comment. The welfare thing got intermixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 whew! I thought I was going to have to start disagreeing with you sk/muffy (I am in diguise today) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Ok, all this talk of taxation leads me to another question: In a perfect world, what services should the governments (from local to federal and all in between) of our great nation provide? FREE BEER! FREE CLIMBING PERMITS! FREE DIESEL FOR MY GAS HOG TRUCKS SO I CAN HAUL ALL OF MY BEER TO CLIMB FOR FREE! GeorgeW er, I mean GregW is gone this week, so good luck keeping this dumb political thread going. Why don't you guys grow up?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Sharpless Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Jim: I agree that a significant part of the difference between European and American work environments is an assessment that there are things more important than maximizing monetary income. I myself am trying - with only partial success - to work less (meaning get paid less) and do other things that enhance quality of life. Sounds like Muffy did that too. I'm somewhat fortunate that as a professional I can make that choice - that's tough to do as a corporate slave. But then, most of Europe also has chronically high unemployment (esp in France, Germany, Spain), and slower growth than even the current US economy. There are tradeoffs. We in the US could learn something from Europe and Canada, and they from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 NOW YOU ARE TALKIN' BRONCO!!!!! free beer free climbing and free travel sk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 quote: It is not something one puts money in to get it out in your own education. uhmm you are forced to go to school*... and later have to repay that debt...the same is true with a person on welfare that gets off and gets a job and pays taxes... so...uhmm... in all actuality you are paying ofr school... either way you look at it, you pay more for education than you, yourself get out of education... that in my eyes means i am paying for it... perhaps it is you that are confused... *legaly and socially (financialy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.