Jim Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 You're missing the point. We are paying other people's bill - the weatlthy's. Wealth is not just measured in cash, and yes it's not the government's job to distribute wealth, but that is what is going on now, and it's all going uphill. I think what is at issue is what is one's fair share of taxes. I don't want to get into minutia, but the weatlth have a number of loop holes big enough drive a SUV through, and very lenient tax policies of late that are placing more of a burden on the lower rungs of earners. There is no doubt about this. We have a democracy, of sorts, but what we are building is a pluracracy of elites. And these are the folks using asking for hands off government policy; unless when it comes to business bailouts (name any big corporation), tax reductions that benefit an extreme minority (wealthy individuals and corporations), of yea and of course protecting "our" oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnGoat Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 "Where the FUCK do you get FREE CHILD CARE???? what memo did I miss?" Plenty of people demand "free" child care, meaning of course paid for by someone else. Here is an example from the green party platform, which represents a least a few million somebodies demanding free childcare. This idea has also been proposed by numerous Dem representatives. "Child Care: Available voluntarily and free for all who need it, modeled after Head Start, federally financed, and community controlled." http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.html#1 [ 11-14-2002, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: MtnGoat ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnGoat Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 "No but I think the huddled masses missed the whole "and we will tax you until you are forced to go on welfare" thing" which is why taxes should be flat at 10% or so with a cutoff for the very poorest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jim: You're missing the point. We are paying other people's bill - the weatlthy's. This is an entirely untrue statement. The top 1% pay the majority of the taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I'd rather my taxes go to child care than more smart bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 The stability of a society is related to the income disparity between the wealthy and the poor. A larger taxable rate for wealthy individuals is justified by the increased earning advantage such social stability affords them. A wealthy Brazilian businessman would be thrilled to trade a 40% income tax for the social stability our system affords us. It beats the hell out of armed guards and security fences. Reliable margins and predictability is worth more than gold to any sensible business professional. That's why we have things like hog and corn "futures." The economic prosperity this country experienced through the Eisenhower administration was matched with a top marginal tax rate of 88%. So much for discouraging "work." If you want to make a difference that counts, lower the payroll tax. It gives more money to people who tend to spend everything they make. That's what makes the economy grow, you stupid-ass supply-siders. The problem with giving more money to wealthy people is that they don't spend it. -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by MtnGoat: did I miss the part where the huddled masses came here to demand someone *else* pay their bills? Ah yes the simplistic bullshit counterpunch. I always forget to watch for that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Oh puh-leeeze!!! Can I use some Lyndon LaRouche demands to rebut some of your points? The argument is over tax reform and you're using a green party platform on childcare to illustrate what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegetablebelay Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by terrible ted: The problem with giving more money to wealthy people is that they don't spend it. -t Who's buying the yachts, the cars, the mansions, the office buildings and on and on and on? It is true though that the wealthy are more likely to invest their money in things that ultimately bring them more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Veggie, I know the argument- the top 10% of the population pays about 30% of the taxes, which is true. But it the top 1% earn about 10% of the income, shouldn't they be paying that proportion. If you look at what each income interval actually pays in taxes vs what that interval is taxed it is way in favor of the upper income level. Why? There are many more ways to dodge it at the upper levels. You need to do some more research if you doubt that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by chucK: Oh puh-leeeze!!! Can I use some Lyndon LaRouche demands to rebut some of your points? The argument is over tax reform and you're using a green party platform on childcare to illustrate what? He's chosen a pretty tenuous example and trying to back it up. I don't see childcare being the tax linchpin upon which liberals focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnGoat Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 "You're missing the point. We are paying other people's bill - the weatlthy's." provide me with examples and I will give you my opinion on a thumbs up or thumbs down on wether we are paying their bills. "yes it's not the government's job to distribute wealth, but that is what is going on now, and it's all going uphill." If you can point to situations where it is explicitly transferred, such as subsidy, I will probably agree it's unwarranted. However, *not* taking more of the resources generated by an individuals own resources may be a transfer, but it is an acceptable one if it is not acheived by illegal cocercion. In other words, that I support not raising taxes on someone, which may infact increase a transfer, but it is a transfer under legitimate conditions. I transfer my wealth to those who provide me with my hiking gear, it's definitely being transferred to people with more than I, but I support it. "and very lenient tax policies of late that are placing more of a burden on the lower rungs of earners. There is no doubt about this." If the increased burden is one they should have because they are not paying what it costs for their services, such an increased burden is in fact justified. I am not concerned about increases or decreases but who is getting what and who is paying for it. If you use more than you pay for, your burden *should* increase. If you use less than you pay for, your burden *should* decrease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by MtnGoat: which is why taxes should be flat at 10% or so with a cutoff for the very poorest. You are as mathematically clueless as Muffy. A flat 10% tax probably wouldn't even pay our elected representatives perks and salaries, much less paying for the military that protects our hard earned freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by MtnGoat: "Where the FUCK do you get FREE CHILD CARE???? what memo did I miss?" Plenty of people demand "free" child care, meaning of course paid for by someone else. Here is an example from the green party platform, which represents a least a few million somebodies demanding free childcare. This idea has also been proposed by numerous Dem representatives. "Child Care: Available voluntarily and free for all who need it, modeled after Head Start, federally financed, and community controlled." http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.html#1 If you say there is free childcare I expect an adress where I can drop my kids off not a theory or someones idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 "It is not the role of govt to address inequities, only to maintain individual rights." Except when it comes to things like the estate tax, which inequitably affects the wealthy, hmmm? Or lowering pollution standards which inequitably affect big energy companies and industry? Seems like a few too many politicians are trying to drive the wrong way on what should be a one-way street, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by chucK: quote:Originally posted by MtnGoat: which is why taxes should be flat at 10% or so with a cutoff for the very poorest. You are as mathematically clueless as Muffy. A flat 10% tax probably wouldn't even pay our elected representatives perks and salaries, much less paying for the military that protects our hard earned freedom. how clever of you to catch my drift perks and (gigantic)saleries should no longer be paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 excellent I'm spending the next weekend at Crystal as a charity event to ease the suffering of our lands I'll be sure to have a large beer to make it really count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Make sure you write it off as a charitable contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 C'mon Greg, say it....."poor people are lazy"....you know you want to, and your people are expecting it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 your people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Yeah. All y'all Republican mo'fuggas. Biatch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 As Allison pointed out some time ago, Greg is white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: C'mon Greg, say it....."poor people are lazy"....you know you want to, and your people are expecting it!! Allison, I'll save that for when this thread gets tired and it needs a good troll injection to kick-start it. "Your people..." I have no people, I am myself and beholden to no one except Charlton Heston, the memory of John Wayne, and the dude that brews Guinness Stout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by rbw1966: As Allison pointed out some time ago, Greg is white. Yes, but I'm a "high yellow" kinda white. See: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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