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banos

FYI: Snowshoer missing on Rainier

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extra batteries for the mp3

pornography

nitro

tauntaun and light saber

cyanide tablets for when all of the above fail

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The tauntaun recommendation was inevitable... However they're not quite as good as you'd think. Afterall their insides are only luke warm.

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The tauntaun recommendation was inevitable... However they're not quite as good as you'd think. Afterall their insides are only luke warm.

 

Classic!

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WTF? No extra smokes??? :wazup:

i was already assuming i'd have killed my partner for them - if i'm solo and the unthinkable st famine's day sets in for the smokes, i'm sure i can make an acceptable substitute out of the cyanide n' nitro.

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As someone who's spent an unplanned night out on the slopes above Paradise, I'll weigh in.

A winter AT trip on the Muir snowfield. Weather deteriorates quickly below Pan Point, me and a 17 yr old newbie get disorientated and veer east, down the fall line, despite trying to follow a due south compass bearing. By 10 pm my headlight fails, so we radio into buddies at Paradise and dig in. Next day we skied out to Paradise through 14 inches of powder and single digits. I learned this:

 

*Bring exta dry glove liners, my wetted out gloves froze into bricks.

*Waterproof matches. Even in the dead of winter, below treeline we could have built a fire.

*Emergency bivi sack. Light weight and would have been oh so nice.

 

That's about it. We had extra layers, we kept a cool head, dug into a small clump of trees and stayed warm by doing squats, step ups all night. We were in communication via radio, ate the last of our food and water, and counted the minutes until first light.

Of course it's not practical to bring everything on a day hike/ski, but it's possible to survive in good spirits and not endanger others with a little forethought and basic survival skills.

Barry

BTW so glad to hear that Mr. Kim is ok

 

I did that 11 years ago up there. Spent the worst night of my life in a snow hole, ill prepared for it, and came to with the whole-body-barfies in the morning about when the sun tried to thaw me out. Was so cold and cramped from shivering all night, I couldn't swallow down any of my ice chunky water.

 

Now I always cary a space blanket, extra wool top and bottoms, and goretex overmits now. Doesn't take up much space in the pack.

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Weather deteriorates quickly below Pan Point, me and a 17 yr old newbie get disorientated and veer east, down the fall line, despite trying to follow a due south compass bearing.

 

Leader must have been left handed?

 

d

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Yong Chun Kim, 66, of Tacoma, told KOMO-TV of Seattle that he had fire starters with him and first burned some leaves. Then he started burning personal items: his socks and then $1 and $5 bills from his wallet.

 

Kim also said he kept moving to keep warm, took cover under a tree at night and dreamed of his wife and a nice hot sauna.

 

Interesting that it never occurred to him to use the tree he was dreaming under to start a fire. I wonder how many BTU's a hiking sock puts out?

 

 

 

 

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Excellent! I was quite curious as to what measures he took to stay warm for two days and nights. Good show, Mr. Kim! :tup: :tup:

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"He burned everything he had," An [his son] said. "He burned his toothpaste, Band-Aids, extra socks. He burned whatever he could."

 

Q: Just how does one burn toothpaste?

 

Also from The Seattle Times:

Missing Hikers & Climbers

 

4 more people overdue in MRNP, possibly at Camp Muir from what I can tell. Pretty big weather system to be sitting out.

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He burned his toothpaste...
For a day-trip, it sure seems like he was prepared for his before-bed oral hygiene routine. Either that, or he's a real dental freak of nature...

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More folks need to read MOS to learn about training and preparation for winter adventures near or above Paradise.

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Mr. Kim was in great shape - no injuries. Two other people spent the same two nights out, off route and overprepared for a day hike but bot prepared for overnight. They came out with no ill effects. It was a great day. The four on the mountain right now have the right gear, and hopefully they will be fine. I've spent several days at Muir in vicious winds - and did just fine. That's not uncommon. I'm hoping for the best.

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Refreshing to hear about someone who used experience and common sense to overcome an issue in the mountains.

 

Hopefully we get similar news about the very overdue folks up there now. I hear they are experienced and have 4-season tents, etc. (personally I've found snow caves to be more cozy for cold storms) Sounds like there's another big storm on the way so probably today is their window to get out.

 

Anyone heard how the search went today?

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jD0qnOwrUPw3ZgywB449iVZ93Jaw?docId=09774c51ff4c4e619ed6acc22f7ae03a

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I did that 11 years ago up there. Spent the worst night of my life in a snow hole, ill prepared for it, and came to with the whole-body-barfies in the morning about when the sun tried to thaw me out. Was so cold and cramped from shivering all night, I couldn't swallow down any of my ice chunky water.

 

Now I always cary a space blanket, extra wool top and bottoms, and goretex overmits now. Doesn't take up much space in the pack.

 

Many people have the idea of digging a snow hole and climbing in for survival, but often once you dig it your soaking wet and then spend a freezing night. It is warmer than the outside air, but your still very cold, may not survive, especially if more than one night.

 

Climbers and hikers often have no concept of primitive camping skills, it is not in the "cool" climbing and hiking books and it is not practiced. Why? Primitive camping is destructive to the environment so it is not practical to use in a on going basis and modern equipment has left primitive camping skills behind in time.

 

But, for emergency usage modified primitive camping skills can save many lives.

 

Basically you need fire starter, a lighter with man made tinder is the most practical and some kind of tool to work up the wood to make tinder. The tool can be a small knife or a bigger knife,a hatchet or a small machete etc. The most important thing is practice and skill, in building a fire. Knowing how to find dry fire wood or making dry fire wood when everything is wet. Then after this basic skill you can think of fire beds, shelter construction, how much wood to gather for a night and so on. To build these skills takes

some time, effort and practice.

 

My basic and very light kit if I pretty much know I can get to the tree line is this. Some sort of pot to melt snow in, I may carry a small canister stove and a single gas bottle in it. I also carry a very thin sheet of plastic, painter's plastic is super thin super lightweight 9' by 12'. You make the frame work of a tent structure or lean to with sticks that you pick up off the ground and then cover with plastic, many different ways to do this, depending if you can get a good fire going or not. Then of course you have two lighters, carry at least two just in case one breaks and this happens often enough. A bic or dejeep lighter is a lot better than matches as you can light thousands of fires with a well cared for high quality lighter(the cheaper junky lighters break more often). Even if you have one of those fancy survival lighters, carry a back up disposable lighter. Good tinder is important. Simple good tinder is cotton with a dab of Vaseline in it, a small bunch of it in a container.

 

The weight of all my gear for a unexpected night out including a belay coat is

5 pounds at the most. Swiss army knife 12oz or small machette, about 1.2lb, lighters and tinder about 8oz at the most. Sheet of thin painter's plastic about a pound. A titanium pot is about 4oz, canister stove can be carried or not, I may throw in a snow claw or snow shovel, all depends how far and now long above tree line, above tree line has only a snow cave option for a night out. If you have a partner then the gear for a emergency primitive camping overnight is easy to divide up in two and weight for each will be very small. For instance, I let my wife carry a nice sized snow shovel for group gear on our day trips, I carry pretty much everything else in group gear, she may have a little fire starter also.

 

To be practical, when in trouble. You move down toward tree line and look at several trees and find the best spot in area. If lucky, you will find plenty of good dry fire wood and able to work it up with the tool you have(rule of thumb, want standing dead wood,or dead limbs dryish sticking out from tree--small enough to work up. Want about arm thickness, if too thick then to hard to work up,if too thin then maybe wet to center of wood, working it up means splitting it up down into the center dry wood. You also cut off the outside skin layer to remove this wet layer. When get a fire going good you can dry this wood out with the fire but at first you need work up the wood to get dead dry fire wood, a real skill and it takes work to get a fire going, with really wet wood, a good tool is necessary, such as a small machete).

 

Gather about 10 full arm fulls of wood, rough estimate is one large armful per hour of night. If on snow build a bark platform for fire to burn on, better though to get fire on the ground if you can find it. Then build a basic lean two wood structure in front of your fire. Make fire about 3 feet away from shelter. Make shelter very small, just big enough to get into. Small shelters are warmer and more easy to build. Cover shelter with plastic, trying to be careful not to rip up. The plastic is a use and throw away item. If you can try to extend plastic all over shelter and over front of shelter. Build fire, then in use, the infrared radiation from the fire will penetrate the plastic and warm the inside of the shelter. Build a smallish fire. Build a reflector on the back of fire using firewood you gathered.

 

Use fire to melt water in your pot.

 

Use boughs to make bedding shelter, figure about 4 to 8 inches of bedding, the more the better. One inch of boughs is about a R factor of 1 per inch, you need a minim of R-4 for ground insulation, you can start off with small logs and put on boughs on top of this well, to get insulation and softness.

 

When building the lean too, the best fastest way is to make wood frame, cover with a little boughs and then cover with foot or so of snow, up to three feet. If have a shovel this will go fairly fast, but make it sturdy, it may collapse with weight. In this kind of construction you do not need to have the plastic if not raining, but it will make more dry if raining, and of course covering the front with plastic will make it much warmer.

 

So with a few pounds of gear and skill, you can turn a night outside out into a primitive camping trip.

 

As you can understand such camping can't be done all the time as it is too destructive to the environment especially in well used areas, even if we wanted to.

 

If I was carrying overnight gear, I would greatly cut down primitive camping gear that I would carry for a emergency night out. A lighter knife or no knife, may leave plastic sheeting behind and so on.

 

To go bare bones, you could just carry two lighters and plenty of tinder, but if everything frozen wet you will have little chance to build a fire in the cascades and this happens often enough. REALLY need a bigger tool to have a chance to work up the fire wood.

 

If nothing else trying to get a shelter and fire going will keep you warm moving around all night. As a practical matter figure about 6 hours of work building a shelter, gathering wood, making fire, melting water and so on. That seems excessive but that is what I have found to be true, to make a good shelter and fire, it takes a long time. I would only do it if no other choice, rather would walk out, can walk a long way in 6 hours if you know where your going. Oh yes, I forgot you should have a good head lamp as this work will most likely be done in the dark. The amount of time it takes to build shelter and fire depends a lot on good location selection, so

I would try to look at 3 to 6 likely spots and pick the best one, often your in area with no good places for fire and shelter and you move on for a few hundred yards and find a great spot(most often under the biggest evergreen trees, usually if I check several of these one spot will be the best, have the most wood and/or the best natural shelter under evergreen limbs of big trees). Another reason should try to practice these skills some or at least think on them.

 

Dan

 

 

Edited by DanO

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Hopefully we get similar news about the very overdue folks up there now. I hear they are experienced and have 4-season tents, etc. (personally I've found snow caves to be more cozy for cold storms) Sounds like there's another big storm on the way so probably today is their window to get out.

 

Anyone heard how the search went today?

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jD0qnOwrUPw3ZgywB449iVZ93Jaw?docId=09774c51ff4c4e619ed6acc22f7ae03a

Josh,

Not to be a dick, but I think we should leave the 4X missing folks out of this thread and keep the two distinct incidents separate. Gets confusing and results in thread drift. There is a brand new thread just for those four over in the Mt. Rainier forum. Updates, questions, and concerns for them can be posted here.

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