layton Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 this size is just baffling to me. butterfly hands (crossed hands palms out) seems to work, but what to do for feet to reset the hands? I just can't find a stable foot position to hold my weight long enough to reset the hands: too small to heel-toe but too big to cam the foot. i wind up doing the shitty diagonal half cam half heel/toe that edges off the side of the crack. doesn't work too well. I can reset the arms by doing a super tight arm-bar since it only uses on arm at a time, but it's hard to move off of that. I can 'scoot up' the Butterfly hands, but it's pretty rough on the palms. am i going about it the total wrong way, or is there some tweak to the technique that could help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadman Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 That is a hard size. I usually end up just going really deep and getting sort of horizontal fist arm bars until I can get a knee in. As soon as I can get a knee in, I start doing a more standard arm bar. The trick seems be just accepting the fact that you can't move very fast at all. As soon as you try to do a big move, you pop out. Progress is generally measured in inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 wish a knee would fit in that size, but then you've have to have crazy fat ass fists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 ...but what to do for feet to reset the hands? I just can't find a stable foot position to hold my weight long enough to reset the hands: too small to heel-toe but too big to cam the foot. i wind up doing the shitty diagonal half cam half heel/toe that edges off the side of the crack. doesn't work too well...I'm certanly no expert, and I climb nowhere near as prolificly as you, Mike, but when I'm confronted with the "off-fist" sized crack, I do a variation of stacking my feet to prepare for the hand reset. It looks really goobery: feet together, sole-to sole (as much as possible), toes-in, with an odd twist to the legs since I don't do yoga. It hurts the inside of my thighs like hell, but you only have to hold it long enough to reset the hands, then scooch up a little and repeat. The tops of your feet (mostly) are in contact with the crack walls. Spreading your heels apart can get you a little more opposition in flares. FYI, I use high-top shoes, which helps for this technique. Like boadman sez, progress is measured in inches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 or just get wayne wallace to lead it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Have you tried the fist/hand stack instead of the hand butterfly? Where you make the fist and shim it with your other hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfeitfake Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 In my very limited experience, the fist-hand stack has been a good option. With the palm of one hand against the side of the crack, and stacking your fist on the back of that hand. You can set that pretty high, pull up, and then you're set up for a half arm-bar or half-gaston while you try to slide your hands up. I'm kind of confused just what width we're talking about though, I think if I can't get a knee in, it's narrow enough that the shitty toe-ankle cam is somewhat secure. You just want to be wearing high tops or have taped your ankle. Shit's awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 In my very limited experience, the fist-hand stack has been a good option. With the palm of one hand against the side of the crack, and stacking your fist on the back of that hand. You can set that pretty high, pull up, and then you're set up for a half arm-bar or half-gaston while you try to slide your hands up. I'm kind of confused just what width we're talking about though, I think if I can't get a knee in, it's narrow enough that the shitty toe-ankle cam is somewhat secure. You just want to be wearing high tops or have taped your ankle. Shit's awkward. i'm talking off fists, too big to cam a fist turned even at 45 degrees, too small to stack fist/hand agreed about high tops and taped ankles. foul language so far hasn't helped such a hard size! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 approach shoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I just did battle with one of these last week, Mike- "Electronic Battleship" in Long Canyon. 25-30' of tipped out #4 BD- incredibly awkward and painful. On the ground we had this same discussion using another nearby crack for practice. We pretty came to the same conclusion as counterfeitfake, hand stacks w/palm against the best edge for a quasi-gaston/tieback move sequence while bumping your hands up- but like all have said, can't move far each time, it's micro movements. At one point I found that one thing that worked great was pulling on the cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The cruel joke was the guidebook's description: "...Splitter hands to a fingers crux". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazzara Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Mike - is it the size of that "11+" wide crack next to the "chimney" at Momentum? Try the 'cobra' - the whole back of your hand (or wrist) on one side of the crack and the tips of you 4 fingers (no thumbs) on the other side - like a super big cup. Kind of like a hand bridge. The other hand does the same thing but opposite. Squeeze the thumb even though its not hitting anyting. High hand stays high, low stays low. Same for the feet. If you cross one hand or foot over the other you screw yourself and fall. Torque the shit out of your feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Mike - is it the size of that "11+" wide crack next to the "chimney" at Momentum? dude, truly amazing guess on the route. bingo! hey, you gonna be in the s.l.c. this winter. missed you last one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadman Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Yeah, as soon as you can get a knee in, you're good. Until then, I usually get one fist in super deep, with my arm more or less straight in from the shoulder, gaston the edge of the crack with the other hand above, push the sole of my bottom foot against the opposite edge from the one my top hand is gastoning, torque my top foot, and thrutch a few inches at a time. The 11a "offwidth" at nightmare in Squamish is a perfect example of this size for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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