crazyjizzy Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 On an other thread I was reading some discussions on rigging, and was much amused. 1) We used to use plate cams, which are used for picking steel, and which use the same logrithmic spiral as friends. Steel to steel has much less friction than aluminum to basaltic rocks, and we never had a failure. 2) I have done alot of rigging, as a scab boilermaker, scab ironworker, working for a scab crane company as an operator and a rigger, and erecting many P&H TC 90 lattice boom cable cranes. I have always worked with journeymen, and have never seen a failure of any sort. Makes you think that our expert union rigger is an incompetant boob, and surrounded by more of the same. Next time I go to the theatre I'll bring a hard hat, and a firstaid kit. 3) I know that AlpineK is a good tree and climbing rigger. He always brings the jaws of life to the theatre. [ 10-03-2002, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: crazyjz ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I don't wish to engage in any sort of flame war here, and I've never professed to being an expert rigger, but in my line of work I do a fair bit, and am constantly surrounded by it. There are failures of all stripes in theatrical and large venue concert rigging. Have I directly, and personally, been at fault? Never once that I can think of, but in the grand scheme of things, perhaps indirectly at some time. I honestly cannot say for sure. I've never seen a severe failure that resulted in a serious accident, fortunately, but I would say nationally that a couple of stagehands a year meet their fate as a result of such, or of a fall. Such is the nature of temporary installation. Our work is not as dangerous statistically as that of ironworkers, but I'd say it's on par with construction workers in general. Last time I checked long-term disability insurance was not readily available to workers in my field. Similar to climbing accidents, there is always a lot of follow-up when there is a failure. We always want to know how and why it happened, so that we can learn from our mistakes. To that end, I had a long conversation with one of the most experienced and talented theatrical riggers in the city today about how an aluminum biner could break. He came to roughly the same conclusions I had on my own, but it was great at talk to him about it further. We can only hope that the ongoing investigation about Monday's tragic accident will answer our questions. As I said at the beginning, I don't want to get into a flame war about my qualifications, experience, or the nature of my work, but I've been at it for sixteen years, and I feel inclined to defend myself in this case. I don't believe in the context of the rigging discussion that I ever couched it in terms of whether I was represented by a trade union or not, as it is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I'm sorry, but I think I need to jump in here. If I were looking for an expert rigger of wire rope I would talk to a crane operator or an iron worker. If I wanted to talk to an expert rigger of nylon rope I would talk to an arborist. I don't think I would go to the theater to look for rigging advice. Further when I hear someone talk about all the accidents they have been around a red flag goes up in my brain. Most accidents of this sort happen because the person doing the rigging was: A) working too fast B) incompetent Anyway CrazyJZ knows a thing or two about rigging. PS I'm sure, like any trade, there's stuff stage hands do that tree guys, iron workers, and crane operators couldn't do as well. [ 10-03-2002, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: AlpineK ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I don't quite see the point of this thread. Maybe I missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I agree, what the hell are the three of these tweekers talking about and why??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone_Shoes Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 What the hell is going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr._Chips Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 who's pickin a banjo here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 [ 10-04-2002, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: allison ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Allison, call me crazy...but it doesn't seem that anyone here gives a shit about your "rigging" experience, or understands what the hell it has to do with rock climbing or rock climbing equipment, or why you keep bringing it up. I don't see what kind of case anyone is making against you, or why you "feel inclined to defend yourself in it"...except me calling you a paranoid delusional psycho... If you want to start a "rigging" web site, lets do it. You, me, and AlpineK. You've got the theater experience, K's the tree specialist, and I paint 600-1500ft radiotowers for extra cash. I think the three of us would make a good team, maybe jon and tim can help us out [ 10-04-2002, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrone_Shoes Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 This Allison, who is she? I can make no sense of her post at all, no directive? I'm missing somthing maybe. Pulito nonsenso ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: I agree, what the hell are the three of these tweekers talking about and why??? I know how to jerry rig. Does that make me qualified to offer some nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordop Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I once worked on the downtown eastside of Vancouver - you had to be careful, there were rigs all over the place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherguy Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 The rumor going around these days is that crazyjz rigged some pigs up at Index a long time ago. If this is true then he must be an expert rigger. The rest of you shut up now until you top that feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 "...we were friggin' in the riggin', friggin' in the riggin' coz there's nothing else to do!"- Sid Vicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 I have heard that there were failures that were your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Yeah, i admit it...I pissed off of the king tower on Queen Anne and almost hit our client (the tower engenieer) ooops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Beck, my son, that's an old Canadian naval tune that Siddy boy borrowed from: "Friggin'in the riggin', friggin' in the riggin' friggin' in the riggin', there was Fuck-all else to do...the cabin boy was Flipper, he was a dirty nipper, he lined his ass with broken glass and circumcised the skipper!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 'Twas on the good ship Venus, by God you should've seen us, the figurehead was a whore in bed, and the mast a giant penis! Friggin in the riggin, friggin in the riggin, friggin in the riggin, the was fuck-all else to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Next time y'all are at a big rock show, like at the Key Arena, for example, look up at the lighting trusses, speaker clusters, any flying scenic elements, basically everything that's temporarily installed. That stuff was all put up by stagehands, and it's quite possible, by yours truly. In a theatrical environment, everything that's over the stage is somehow part of a temporary rigging installation as well. It's a huge part of what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted October 5, 2002 Author Share Posted October 5, 2002 I'm sure that it was put up by a stage hand, but not one who is afraid of heights, and barely capable of standing on the second step of a six foot ladder. I am sure your task of running the hand truck is important, but don't try to fool us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Kinda snide there JZ, and as you don't work with Allison I suspect it's heresay and character assasination. What's your real agenda here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Ground riggers are generally considered to be of equal or higher skill level than high riggers in my work. We put together all of the stuff and do the math on the bridle points etc. Mark, you are absolutely correct about my acrophobia. Off, the character assasination issue is not one worth pursuing. [ 10-05-2002, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: allison ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Okay, nevermind then JZ. There's just been so much crabbiness going around lately, it reminds me of how the hornets start acting this time of year. I weary of it, but so what. Winter's coming. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Off White: Kinda snide there JZ... Alert the news media, why I've known Mark for years and I've never heard him described as snide before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted October 6, 2002 Author Share Posted October 6, 2002 You are a living carictature of your self. Ability is no substitute! Good thing you have a shop steward so you keep your job, and a bunch of Stewart Smilley tapes so you can believe that you are equal to the guys up high. Lets see, you have to use a tape measure and divide a number by either two, three, or even four! Then you take the chokers and shackle them into the prefabricated pad eyes. WOW! You do all this while the high guys are risking life and limb attaching the chainfalls, blocks, and tackles to the structure. It sure does sound like a even division of labor to me. How is your hand truck? [ 10-05-2002, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: crazyjz ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts