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ScaredSilly

Smith Rock Monkey Face swinger takes out climbers

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As an avid climber I inevitably favor rock climbing over the other activities performed at Smith, but I do not believe that this passion of mine deserves dominance over any other.

It's a skill-less, thrill-seeking activity with an all but vacuous over-in-a-minute content. Sooner or later things like that will always attract the unaware and / or the negligent.

 

Also keep in mind it has now likely and directly jeopardized highlining in the park - an activity the does require some considerable discipline and skills development.

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I would be quite upset if due to the actions of one negligent climber injuring a hiker, a hiker decided to remove/chop bolts and anchors at Smith.

 

 

One person didn't decide to chop the bolts. The community has spoken, the bolts are gone.

 

Perhaps instead of beating a dead horse on an issue that was really up to the Smith locals to decide, we should be discussing what we as a climbing community can do to help our sister climber who was injured.

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I've done the swing on a much more simple set-up (single rope w/ grigri) that didn't involve flossing people at the base and had a good 'ol time. Glad I had the opportunity. Smith Rock isn't new to such crazy shenanigans, so I'm a little surprised to see it get taken down so quickly. I understand the reasoning behind it though and I'm glad you got the approval of the bivy hippies first.

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I would be quite upset if due to the actions of one negligent climber injuring a hiker, a hiker decided to remove/chop bolts and anchors at Smith.

 

 

One person didn't decide to chop the bolts. The community has spoken, the bolts are gone.

 

Perhaps instead of beating a dead horse on an issue that was really up to the Smith locals to decide, we should be discussing what we as a climbing community can do to help our sister climber who was injured.

 

one dude talking to a select, small handful of locals, who are probably agreeable types to begin with, is not "the community."

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one dude talking to a select, small handful of locals, who are probably agreeable types to begin with, is not "the community."

 

Agreed.

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My last attempt to climb the monkey was stymied by a group from CA that decided to monopolize the entire top of the monkey for the better part of a day in an attempt to rig "that swing thing" they saw on the internet. They assured us that it was "all good" though because they brought their brother in law the "engineeer" with and he was gonna make sure it was safe. I didn't bother to mention to them that most people don't rig it from the bolts on top of the monkey's head, which is where they were trying to set up their main anchor. I don't think they ever did actually jump but I know that we weren't the only party that opted to not climb the monkey because these yahoos were screwing around up there all day.

 

I don't see a problem with rigging it once in a while and letting everyone know that the swing is going up. I know this has happened many times without problems. I'm sure it's a lot of fun if done safely and with a little forethought, but I, for one, am glad to hear that it will no longer be so easy for idiots to wander into the park and try this because they saw the video on the internet.

 

Thanks for getting rid of the bolts.

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I would be quite upset if due to the actions of one negligent climber injuring a hiker, a hiker decided to remove/chop bolts and anchors at Smith.

 

 

One person didn't decide to chop the bolts. The community has spoken, the bolts are gone.

 

Perhaps instead of beating a dead horse on an issue that was really up to the Smith locals to decide, we should be discussing what we as a climbing community can do to help our sister climber who was injured.

 

I was climbing at Smith yesterday and the "community" was not happy about the bolt chopping. And as for the "locals to decide," I am a local, and every other local I have talked to has not been in favor of the bolts being chopped. These facts lead me, as I have stated before, to the belief that this was not a consensual decision representative of the general population here at Smith, but a select few.

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I would be quite upset if due to the actions of one negligent climber injuring a hiker, a hiker decided to remove/chop bolts and anchors at Smith.

 

 

One person didn't decide to chop the bolts. The community has spoken, the bolts are gone.

 

Perhaps instead of beating a dead horse on an issue that was really up to the Smith locals to decide, we should be discussing what we as a climbing community can do to help our sister climber who was injured.

 

I was climbing at Smith yesterday and the "community" was not happy about the bolt chopping. And as for the "locals to decide," I am a local, and every other local I have talked to has not been in favor of the bolts being chopped. These facts lead me, as I have stated before, to the belief that this was not a consensual decision representative of the general population here at Smith, but a select few.

 

I agree. But.....it is easy to bolt....so put them back in.

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What if the state parks stated "Rope swinging is now banned" or required a user permit?

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I would be quite upset if due to the actions of one negligent climber injuring a hiker, a hiker decided to remove/chop bolts and anchors at Smith.

 

 

One person didn't decide to chop the bolts. The community has spoken, the bolts are gone.

 

Perhaps instead of beating a dead horse on an issue that was really up to the Smith locals to decide, we should be discussing what we as a climbing community can do to help our sister climber who was injured.

 

I was climbing at Smith yesterday and the "community" was not happy about the bolt chopping. And as for the "locals to decide," I am a local, and every other local I have talked to has not been in favor of the bolts being chopped. These facts lead me, as I have stated before, to the belief that this was not a consensual decision representative of the general population here at Smith, but a select few.

 

 

While your getting all psyched out about Ian chopping those bolts, remeber someone is still in the hospital. I'd love to hear their opinion first. Everyone needs to fucking relax, if you care so much go put em back in, no one is stopping you. I talked to Ian on the phone before he did it, and said I didn't give a shit one way or the other. I guess he didn't have a chance to call, all the "locals". The bolts where poorly placed anyways, with one of the hangers upside down, just prying the bolt out. Joel did not know what he was doing when he put those bolts in unfortunatly. Spraying about how much you care about some silly swing bolts online is not really being proactive, you want to make a statement, go right back up and put em in. But these online shit storms do nothing. Every one bitching is being pretty fucking selfish in my opinion, since none of us are laying in the hospital missing half our teeth. If that was you, or your wife or something, I feel like a lot of people might have different opinions. As Joseph has said climbing gear is not for jumping if you want to jump go do it somewhere safely. Theres a few routes I've wanted to try at Smith, but havent because I feel they are too dangerous to attempt with hikers on the trail all day long, so be it, I won't do em, just like I won't do the swing. I'm not really trying to advocate one way or the other. I'm meerly pointing out that many of you have not noted how someone life is not going to be the same, while we all go about our busieness bitching about bolts online. Have a nice day!

 

:wave:

 

PS: Hope that Liz can get better and get back to a normal life as soon as possible!

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I would be quite upset if due to the actions of one negligent climber injuring a hiker, a hiker decided to remove/chop bolts and anchors at Smith.

 

 

One person didn't decide to chop the bolts. The community has spoken, the bolts are gone.

 

Perhaps instead of beating a dead horse on an issue that was really up to the Smith locals to decide, we should be discussing what we as a climbing community can do to help our sister climber who was injured.

 

I was climbing at Smith yesterday and the "community" was not happy about the bolt chopping. And as for the "locals to decide," I am a local, and every other local I have talked to has not been in favor of the bolts being chopped. These facts lead me, as I have stated before, to the belief that this was not a consensual decision representative of the general population here at Smith, but a select few.

 

 

While your getting all psyched out about Ian chopping those bolts, remeber someone is still in the hospital. I'd love to hear their opinion first. Everyone needs to fucking relax, if you care so much go put em back in, no one is stopping you. I talked to Ian on the phone before he did it, and said I didn't give a shit one way or the other. I guess he didn't have a chance to call, all the "locals". The bolts where poorly placed anyways, with one of the hangers upside down, just prying the bolt out. Joel did not know what he was doing when he put those bolts un unfortunatly. Spraying about how much you care about some silly swing bolts online is not really being proactive, you want to make a statement, go right back up and put em in. But these online shit storms do nothing. Every one bitching is being pretty fucking selfish in my opinion, since none of us are laying in the hospital missing half our teeth. If that was you, or your wife or something, I feel like a lot of people might had different opinions. As Joseph has said climbing gear is not for jumping if you want to jump go do it somewhere safely. Theres a few routes I've wanted to try at Smith, but havent because I feel they are too dangerous to attempt with hikers on the trail all day long, so be it I won't do em, just like I won't do the swing. I'm not really trying to advocate one way or the other. I'm meerly pointing out that many of you have not noted how someone life is not going to be the same, while we all go about our busieness bitching about bolts online. Have a nice day!

 

:wave:

 

PS: Hope that Liz can get better and get back to a normal life as soon as possible!

:tup: well said...best wishes to the injured climber for the speediest/fullest recovery possible....

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20 years ago there was a rope swing off Scarface (to the right of Shoes of the Fisherman). I've not seen it put up lately, but I almost rode it one year. I watched a climber set it up once, and it was not something a tourist, or a beginner could do. You had to aid up with a stick clip, and probably clean it afterwards with jumars.

 

That might be a compromise. It didn't look like it endangered any other routes, and experienced climbers have to run it. It launched above a fairly flat trail, not a climbing cliff where someone could get flossed off.

 

I personally think rope swings are stupid. Go climbing if you need a rush, lead something hard instead of doing that boring top roping all the time. I get all the thrills I need leading stuff that is right at my limit, who needs a rope swing?

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hey, rope swings are fun! but maybe rope swings are not a sport unless you count jacking off as a sport as well...

I have it on good authority "bating" will be a popular sport by the 26th century.

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This swing has changed from people swinging risking their own lives, to nearly killing 2 innocent by-standers. I think this accident is horrible and should never happen again. Now we have 2 innocent people who are severely injured and will be impacted forever. I have heard the extent of their injuries and it is not good. Joel is very upset about this and was going to remove the bolts himself within a week. We both discussed it and we felt the sooner the better.

 

This is a very high profile incident that runs the risk of endangering our ability to continue enjoying the opportunities that we have right now in the park. Newer stuff in the park like highlining and even climbing could potentially be at risk.

 

This has to do with the big picture that is very complicated, I will not go into the details here. I gave it a lot of thought. I have read every post here and considered what everyone has said.

 

BTW. I talked to Alan Watts about this today. He did not put the bolts in, never swung on it and agreed with my actions.

 

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This swing has changed from people swinging risking their own lives, to nearly killing 2 innocent by-standers. I think this accident is horrible and should never happen again. Now we have 2 innocent people who are severely injured and will be impacted forever. I have heard the extent of their injuries and it is not good. Joel is very upset about this and was going to remove the bolts himself within a week. We both discussed it and we felt the sooner the better.

 

This is a very high profile incident that runs the risk of endangering our ability to continue enjoying the opportunities that we have right now in the park. Newer stuff in the park like highlining and even climbing could potentially be at risk.

 

This has to do with the big picture that is very complicated, I will not go into the details here. I gave it a lot of thought. I have read every post here and considered what everyone has said.

 

BTW. I talked to Alan Watts about this today. He did not put the bolts in, never swung on it and agreed with my actions.

 

it seems that the potential impacts to climbing are somewhat secondary to the fact that innocent lives were changed forever by a friggin' rope swing.

 

I'm actually quite astounded that people are up in arms about the bolt removal. Thanks Ian for taking care of the obvious.

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I'm with Kimmo on this...Ian, you are in a unique position of understanding both the climbing point-or-view as well as the land manager's...

 

I hope those injured folks can somehow heal well enough to be at 100%...its a desperate wish, I admit...

 

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+1 to Ian's decision. I'm not understanding those getting up in arms about this one. It's a no-brainer. Despite some comments to the contrary, I would not say that his actions are coming across locally as some enforcement by a "select few".

 

But opinions will vary. Fact is...none of that side of the debate is all that important imho. People are gonna get torqued...and argue...and debate. Cause that's what we do on these here interwebz...

 

More importantly...

 

+1000 to the well wishes to the injured. Really hoping the girl pulls through and fully recovers and is back out having fun before long. Really looking forward to hearing some good news. Best wishes to her and her family.

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Let's say some dude was walking the slackline to the monkey mouth, the rope broke, and he fell on a climber below, killing both of them: would you then chop the slackline anchors?

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Let's say some dude was walking the slackline to the monkey mouth, the rope broke, and he fell on a climber below, killing both of them: would you then chop the slackline anchors?

 

BS comparison and you know it.

There's an enormous difference between a rope breaking when being properly and appropriately used resulting in an accident, and someone intentionally jumping off.

 

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"Spraying about how much you care about some silly swing bolts online is not really being proactive, you want to make a statement, go right back up and put em in. But these online shit storms do nothing. Every one bitching is being pretty fucking selfish in my opinion, since none of us are laying in the hospital missing half our teeth. If that was you, or your wife or something, I feel like a lot of people might have different opinions. As Joseph has said climbing gear is not for jumping if you want to jump go do it somewhere safely. Theres a few routes I've wanted to try at Smith, but havent because I feel they are too dangerous to attempt with hikers on the trail all day long, so be it, I won't do em, just like I won't do the swing. I'm not really trying to advocate one way or the other. I'm meerly pointing out that many of you have not noted how someone life is not going to be the same, while we all go about our busieness bitching about bolts online. Have a nice day!" -Corvallisclimber

 

If "these online shit storms do nothing," then why are you continually posting, and why are you calling people "fucking selfish" for not expressing sympathy to the injured? Seems like your empathy would be better spent writing a check to the woman, sending flowers, or any other action more direct than name-calling on a climbing thread. The fact that some individuals want to engage in constructive dialogue--not simply "bitching"--concerning the subsequent actions that transpired after the accident, does not make us apathetic to the woman's current condition.

 

The idea you present with regard to being "proactive," suggesting to "go right back up and put em in," does not really make sense to me. Why would someone waste time and resources on something that another will likely just undo? Sometimes thought precedes action. Currently, thought and dialogue are preceding action, which seems like a healthy order.

 

It seems infinitely dangerous to negate one side of this argument by creating a dichotomy where the voice of dissent is silenced by insinuating that if you disagree with the bolt chopping you are not sympathetic to the injured. Sadly, it reminds me of the rhetoric surrounding the Iraq occupation: "terrorist sympathizers", "freedom haters", etc. Extreme, I know, but the same tactics are being employed.

 

I am glad that Ian sought the opinion of Joel to remove his bolts. This seems like a responsible first step in making a decision of this sort.

 

I will leave one last quote, which was off of Supertopo that I feel encapsulates the real issue, which continues to evade us: "Taking precipitate action in the immediate aftermath of an accident, with the attendant emotion involved, sets up the precedent for how things will go for dealing with climbing related incidents, which will almost always end up being bad for all involved."

 

Ropeswinger or not, think logically please.

 

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Let's say some dude was walking the slackline to the monkey mouth, using a cheap rope from wallmart. the rope broke, and he fell on a climber below, killing both of them: would you then chop the slackline anchors?

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Let's say some dude was walking the slackline to the monkey mouth, using a cheap rope from wallmart. the rope broke, and he fell on a climber below, killing both of them: would you then chop the slackline anchors?

That's the difference between the two. You invest the time to progressively develop the skills to do that walk and you aren't going to fuck it up - it isn't a cheap thrill where you can put the requisite gear and skills together by rummaging around in your trunk.

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